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ILS + AP use in the real world.

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Hi All,I've just been enjoying the nice wintry wonderland here in Baltimore with 1/4 visiblilty. Now back to the sim world: I'm reasonably proficient in manually tracking ILS when the visibility is 2-3 miles out when flying something like the PSS Airbus. With smaller planes I can do even better!Which leads me to wonder: When flying big iron for an airline in the real world, is it possible or allowable (by whichever rules) for a pilot to manually fly the approach on ILS in really low visibilty? I would guess from my sim experience that it would be very difficult and unsafe. But that's just the fake pilot in me talking! :)Just curious! Thanks.

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It is generally not encouraged to fly manually till you have the runway/ground in sight. However, you cannot fly manually below a visibility of 1/2 mile, 200' AGL ceiling (CAT 1 minima). Anything below that is only for autolands. However, some newer aircraft can be flown manually to a CAT3 landing, using a HUD. Believe SWA has that capability on some of their fleet.

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>However, some newer aircraft can be flown manually to a CAT3 landing, using a HUD.Correct, but generally manual landings are allowed down to CAT II minima (as opposed to CAT I), i.e. DH of 100 ft and an RVR which I can't remember. :-)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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Sorry for getting that wrong Martin. :-) Generally for a CAT2 approach the RVR limit is 1200 feet. Once you get to CAT3 it's 600 for CAT3A I believe and CAT3B is 300. CATC is indefinite I think.Correct me if I'm wrong

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Not only allowed down to CatII, but the vast majority of pilots -- based on conversations with a large number of active and retired airline types on real-world aviation sigs -- fly virtually all approaches by hand, except for the Cat IIIs, which their OpSpecs decree must be coupled and those required for training on the autoland systems. From my conversations and observations, most turn off the AP no later than the IAF and usually when entering the terminal area.Bob

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>CATC is indefinite I think. CAT III C is no DH and no RVR. I don't think there are any airports certified for CAT III C though. (I guess it's a matter of seeing the taxiways after rollout :-).)Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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although a CATIIIc appraoch doesn't have a RVR minimum,you would still need some RVR on the ground to be able to leave the runway and to taxi,but I don't think not many pilots will opt to do a CATIIIc approach with a RVR of 0,better go to the alternateabout the original question,nowadays,especially at busy airports,pilots will always fly the appraoch on A/P and disconnect when fully visible with the runway

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Are you aware of any airports where CAT III C is allowed? As far as I know there are none, for the reasons you and I posted: the inability to see the runway, taxiways and ground traffic.Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

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>Are you aware of any airports where CAT III C is allowed? As >far as I know there are none, for the reasons you and I >posted: the inability to see the runway, taxiways and ground >traffic. >>Martin >>767 fetishist >>It's a lot like life and that's what's appealing it doesn't mean CATIIIc approaches are not allowed because of the inability to see the runway,taxiways,etc.,because RVR has no influence on the CATIIIc approach,it's just the fact that it is very unhandy to have a very low RVR.when weather is so that CATIIIc must be used,it doesn't mean you can't still have a decent RVR:RVR has no minimums for a CATIIIc,but obviously it's more practical to have a RVR for the reasons I mentionedI think Milan Malpensa (LIMC) allows CATIIIc,but I'm not sure though,I should check that

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