Hi,Those of you who have installed my water combo, as described in that distant post now almost lost from memory in those thick annals of history that is Avsim's forum archives, might like to ponder this question.First the link to those excellent textures ;)http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...d=163638&page=5Over the past month or two I have been aware of the absence of water reflections that are visible in the early morning and late afternoon in a previously saved flight situation. Quite often these will suddenly appear after flying around for a while, but more often they usually remain absent.Today I decided to experiment.My settings:Terrain Detail = Land OnlyWater Effects = HighI discovered that if I "Clear All Weather" - I use a hot key assignment 'Ctrl+Shift+W' via FSUIPC to achieve this without pausing the sim - the reflections snap back and the water colour changes from a rather muddy turquoise green to pleasant shades of blue when facing the direction of the sun sitting low in the sky. I can then add clouds and the relections remain unaffected. Not only do the reflections remain, but I can then load any previously saved flight situation with clouds and known water reflections and those lovely reflections remain visible, in all their glory, just as they should be. This behaviour appears to be reproducible with each fresh simming session.Why does this simple action of temporarily "Clearing all Weather" have this rather strange side-effect? Am I alone in noticing this?MikeP4 2.4GHz (400FSB), 1Gig PC2100 DDR Crucial, ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB (Omega 2.5.36b), SB Audigy (5.12.0001.0443), Hyundai ImageQuest Q17 17" Monitor (1280x1024x32), Gigabyte GA-8IRXP MoBo, Ultra-Quiet PSU 400W, WinXP Home (SP1), DirectX 9.0b, AGP Aperture = 128MB

Nope, you're not the only one Mike.I had noticed this a few weeks ago after installing my Samsung TFT monitor. I thought it had to do with the new hardware. But now you mention it, and I'm inclined to do some testing.Wonder if nVidia GPU owners are seeing this, too?Be back in a few minutes after I test with the default textures.Greg

Would it be possible for any owners of nVidia DirectX 8.x compatible cards to test this?Thanks,Greg

...as ever hopeful that others will chip in with their experiences.It would certainly be interesting, for example, to see whether this observation is card and/or driver specific.Many of you may not have been aware that this "?problem/?bug" exists at all in the same way I had stopped consciously looking for the effect having been concentrating more on the numerous other visual delights this sim has to offer.Perhaps, like many odd phenomena, it is system specific or maybe it has only been noted on mine and Greg's systems. Any offers...? Mike

MikeI used your tips for the water textures and effects and agree they are a superb combination, thanks for that.I do not save any flights so I am not aware of this problem you describe, but what I can tell you is that when designing scenery, there are instances where the land dissappears to be replaced by water. This only happens at night, not dusk, day or dawn.Autogen scenery still shows through and if I turn off the water effects the land appears. This is really frustrating as I am not prepared to design my scenery so that it excludes these effects and textures.By the way I use an ATI card (9600, 128mb) and it took a while to find any effects that would actually work on my system.Colin

"I do not save any flights so I am not aware of this problem you describe"Curious that you don't save flights AND don't see this effect, Colin. I played around with a saved flight a while last night, and could reproduce the problem as Mike described it in his original post. Since then I have saved the flight with the water color and refections looking as they should be. In trying the flight (from desktop) numerous times since the new save all is well with my water.I don't believe the problem is with add-on textures. I saved my default textures (both the file in sceneryworld folder and the texture folder in the main FS9 directory) from a recent fresh sim install, and I still had the ruddy water and lost refections issue with those textures.Still hoping some nVidia owners will weigh in here,Greg

Hi Greg,I've tested a little more and have come to the conclusion that this may not be a bug after all, or, at least, a very minor bug with a workaround.I think it is all linked to the presence or absence of clouds. When testing I have found that it is important to restart the sim from scratch each time before loading a saved test flight. Failing to do this has the effect of clouding (harumm!) the issue, as once the reflections have appeared they will persist throughout a session no matter what test flights are being loaded.For the purposes of testing I set the time of day in two saved situations to around 16.30hrs. One had clouds and the other had no clouds.Loading the situation with clouds = no reflectionsLoading the situation without clouds = reflectionsReloading the situation with clouds = reflectionsLoading the situation with clouds = no reflectionsRemoving clouds via the weather menu option = reflectionsIt would appear, therefore, that the sim is assuming no water reflections of the sun if clouds are present immediately after the sim is loaded for a new session. I think this is the case no matter the percentage cover of cloud. Removing the clouds brings on the long reflections, assuming the time of day is correct. The interesting thing here is that once reflections have appeared you can add back the cloud cover and the reflections will remain. It would be a great pity if this were not the case as the effect can be quite stunning. Perhaps this was the intention of the developers as, many will agree, eye candy is a very important aspect of this sim.So, there seems to be a certain logic associated with the appearance or non-appearance of water reflections. However, the simmer needs to be aware that at the start of each simming session the loading of a previously saved flight situation with clouds and reflections does not necessarily guarantee the reappearance of the latter until you have cleared the clouds or have first loaded/created a situation without clouds. It may just be, of course, that this has not been widely noted simply because, given time and the correct conditions, the reflections would appear eventually in any case.I've just rechecked by restarting the sim and loaded a previously saved situation with scattered cloud cover and, would you believe it, those reflections are there!!! Aaaarh! Maybe it's a bug after all.Comments anybody? Have I got it right or is this behaviour peculiar to mine and Greg's systems only?Regards,Mike

The presence of clouds in the sim is actually not defined by their physical appearance in the sim, but by the combination of a number of settings in the menu. At anything less than `maximum` cloud numbers are artificially reduced, giving the appearance of clear skies when the meteo actually confirms the presence of cloud. I am pretty sure the trigger for the reflection effect is based on weather, not clouds visible on screen.It's yet another good reason for limiting the fps slider, as clouds will be drawn later and with less density when the slider is set to `unlimited`, so it's not just the cloud slider itself that causes the effect, so there's no easy workround, other than setting clear skies in the weather menu.Allcott

The presence of clouds (or lack thereof) makes no difference on my system. Like Mike, I have two test flights saved... one with the appropriate slider set to a "few" clouds, the other with all weather cleared.I just now again called up both my test flights (one set for mid morning, the other for late morning). They were each started from desktop, and both came up showing the proper water color and reflections. I'm beginning to think this is a .cfg issue of some sort.I agree with Mike... this certainly isn't a major problem. But it does makes for some head scratching.GregEdited because my keyboard still can't spell.

"I used your tips for the water textures and effects and agree they are a superb combination, thanks for that.".....You're very welcome, Colin :)Mike

Hi Allcott,Thanks for your input. Pity no one else, other than Greg, is prepared to have a go. Never mind - cest la vie!"I am pretty sure the trigger for the reflection effect is based on weather, not clouds visible on screen."..... I don't think that is correct.To reiterate, it is important if any tests are to be valid, to restart the sim before loading a saved test situation.I don't know to what extent the following may be relevant, but my weather settings in the sim are:Sight Distance: 80 milesCloud Draw Distance: 50 miles3D Cloud percentage: 100Detailed Clouds selectedCloud Coverage Density is set to MaximumTry this:Setup and Save a test situation WITH clouds and NO reflections visible when you know you should be seeing those long reflections, i.e. late afternoon before dusk any season, then exit the sim.Now restart the sim and reload the test situation. If reflections are still not visible, open Weather from the World Menu and click on User Defined Weather. Under Conditions, set Clouds to 'Clear' and okay your way back to the loaded situation and relections will now be visible. On the basis of these findings, my advice/workaround would be:If you load a previously saved situation which had both clouds and visible long sun water reflections and the latter are not present, then clear the clouds. The water reflections will snap back into view and you can restore your cloud setup by quickly reloading the situation. As stated in my original post, I have defined the hotkey combo Ctrl+Alt+W to clear the clouds - it actually says 'Weather' in FSUIPC but, as I have shown, clearing clouds has the same effect. It is only necessary to press this key combo once.Cheers!Mike

Grrrr!!!!I can't make it happen now, Mike. Since I made a new save of my original flight (and added a second test) a couple days ago I get pretty water (thanks to you) and the nice reflections. I can't make the pretty stuff not happen now!!I'm leaning more toward this being a .cfg matter. Perhaps it involves new driver installs, or reconfiguring the Display settings in such a way that it dumps the water reflections at start-up, or the weather settings in the FS9.cfg, or any number of things.I've made copious notes about my current settings and config. I'll be checking often until I can see the problem again, and then compare my current set-up (that's working just fine) with the set-up that doesn't activate reflections at start-up.Computers... they keep us entertained. In more ways than one. :-) Greg

"Computers... they keep us entertained. In more ways than one."....now ain't that the truth..lolAh well, at least WE know what to do the next time it happens :)I've spent the past couple of hours immersed in Bill and Lynn Lyons latest masterpiece - The Classic Goose - see Avsim's front page. They have included many interesting and varied flight situations (I think it's 25!) with this package. So far I've visited 5 and reflections and clouds were present in every one without my having to do anything!! I've seen a rainbow (yes, a rainbow), a wonderful sunset, water dripping inside the Grumman Goose when the side window is opened, exhaust flames from the engines, an ominous triangular dorsal fin circling close to my wallowing a/c and that's only scratching the surface of the numerous features included with this great package. For $12.50 it really is a steal. My only wish is that they would save their flight situations with the gradual transition box left unchecked in spot view - I have to uncheck it every time before setting off on the next adventure. Minor gripe, I know, but irritating nevertheless. Best regards,Mike