does anyone know if there's a trim tab indicator in the default 747? there's one in all the other aircraft but can't find it in the 747. it would REALLY be helpful for takeoffs. also it mentions a 10 degree pitch up attitude for takeoffs. in the lesson for the 737 it says pitch up to 20 degrees which works out just fine for speed control. most parameters in the 737, 747 and 777 for takeoffs are close to the same except the takeoff speed for the 737 is lower. i was wondering if a 20 degree pitch up in the 747 instead of a 10 degree would be proper? i'm using full fuel maxed with 5 degrees of flaps. or maybe using 10 to 20 degrees of flaps instead of 5. what i'm getting at is trying to see how close to the numbers you can fly according to what the specs say in the sim. the trim settings would make a big difference if i could find them. william

Hello William,I don't fly the default aircrafts much. Especially the big iron since I have the PMG 737 and the Request for Pushback 747-200 Classic Version 1(I also use this panel on POSKY 747-200's). But 'Massimo Grassi' just posted a Photoreal 747-400 Panel(panel7400.zip) and it's on the front page of Avsim. Or at least it was just a few hours ago. So I was thinking about installing this panel for the default 747-400 and checking it out. Especially since I have updated Flight Dynamics for the default 747-400 by Pedro Oliveira installed(fd744ae.zip). ;) Perhaps Massimo Grassi's new panel has a trim tab indicator. I'm going to check it out!It seems to me that you have to be very careful when taking off in a 747 in order to aviod a tail strike. And to me a 20 degree pitch up on take-off in a 747 sounds like a sure recipe for a tail strike.Regards,Jim

I believe the trim indicator is on the middle PFD. It maybe on a secondary display on that screen, can't just remember now. Should be in the lower left corner of the screen, and it's an electronic display readout, not a mechanical indicator as in the 737-400.On the handling of the 747, you must keep in mind the 747 is not a 737. The 737 is a sports car compared with a loaded 747. Initial pitch angles with a fully loaded 747 will be less than that of a '37, so 10 degree intial rotation is pretty close. That will increase as the speed increases, and you may see 15 to 20 degrees once cleaned up and climbing at 250 kts (speed restriction below 10,000 ft in many places). Personally (and from what I've seen professionally), you normally use 20 degrees of flap on takeoff with a loaded 747. You need all the lift you can get. If the bird is empty, that makes a huge difference to flap and pitch angle requirements, so keep that in mind. There is an approximately 550 THOUSAND pound difference from a fully loaded 747 to a totally empty one, so that has to have a big influence on how it handles. Conversely, the 737-400 has only about a 50,000 lb difference (I'm being VERY approximate here!), so while there will be a significant difference in handling/pitch requirements, etc., it's still nothing like the change in handling for a 747 - fs or real.Hope that helps.Glenn

Hi,Good post Glenn. That should help William out, and me too! When I fly a 747 in Flight Simulator I have always used more than Flaps 5. But then I never take off lightly loaded. ;-)Jim

Thanks Jim, yours too. I've heard from real 747 drivers that they can be a real handful to fly empty (such as on a ferry flight) :-). Those big 4 engines are meant to haul 700,000 plus pounds off the runway. Take away 400 or so thousand of those pounds, and you have a very much different power-to-weigh ratio, and you really need to hang on to your seat belts :-lol.Glenn

hi jim, i've thought about getting a new panel and or aircraft but i'm not sure my machine will run one. i know some can make a machine slow down to a crawl and a slide show. i still may look into it though. i have a 2.4 gig setup. i haven't looked for the trim tab you mentioned but am about to. i hope you're right but i think you might be thinking of the flap setting indicator. i could be wrong here and hope i am. just read glens reply so let me go thank him too. thanks alot. william

jim, it was glen who mentioned the trim tab indicator not you. sorry about that. william

glenn, thanks VERY much! i've been trying to get this thing right for a few days now. i have been getting pretty much the results you mentioned here and am glad to know i'm not to far off base. right now my eyes are bloodshot and my head hurts from all the testing i've been doing the last few hours. you're reply came none to soon! good news indeed. i thought 20 degrees of flaps might be right too for a fully loaded 747 but i kept trying that 5 degree thing. i'll go with 20. that solves that problem! anyway just wanted to say thanks alot. it was a big help. william

You're most welcome William :-). I know all about the bloodshot eyes, etc. :-lol.Enjoy!Glenn

Look at the left top side of the pedestal for the trim indication.Boeings DO NOT use trim tabs. Logitudinal trim is obtained by pivoting the horizontal stabilizer to give it a negative angle of attack and thus a downforce. The heavier the aircraft the greater this negative angle must be. Once the aircraft is flying this angle is reduced with increasing airspeed to maintain a constant downforce.Just as in flight the wing angle of attack is reduced to keep lift a constant for straight and level flight. Correct setting of the stabilizers is determined by the take-off weight and position of the G of G on the MAC and is essential prior to take-off. This is just one of the interlocks for the take-off warning horn. Without the assistance of the downforce on the stabilizer the elevators would be lucky to have enough authority to get the nose wheel off the ground. Scraping the tail is really quite difficult providing you don't rotate EARLY. Boeing 747 have an over-rotation computer that senses rate of rotation and if it senses a high rate it feeds in down elevator that slows the rate. Providing you have airspeed the aircraft will become airborne and no chance of the tail striking the runway.Cheers,Roger

so that's where it's hidden. i do remember now. i normally don't bring up the throttle quad, just use the throttle on my stick instead. maybe i should start using it. thanks alot roger. very informative. william