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Guest Capn Tall

Whose responsibility for an incorrect input into the FM...

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Let us assume that ATC issues an instruction to fly to a Waypoint that is not currently in the Flight Plan.If the co-pilot incorrectly inputs that instruction into the FMD I assume that the Captain is responsible.How does he guard against the possiblity of a slip of this nature?Cliff

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Cliff, The first officer relies on a definitive set of cockpit rules, (listed below) to keep the copilot in-line and up to snuff.COCKPIT RULESThe PILOT always makes THE RULES.THE RULES are subject to change at anytime without prior notification. No CO-PILOT can possibly know all THE RULES.If the Pilot suspects the that the CO-PILOT knows all THE RULES, he must immediately change some or all of THE RULES.The PILOT is never wrong.If the PILOT is wrong, it is due to a misunderstanding which was a direct result of something the CO-PILOT did or said wrong.The CO-PILOT must apologize immediately for causing a misunderstanding.The Pilot may change his mind at any time.The CO-PILOT must never change his mind without the expressed written consent of the Pilot.The PILOT has every right to be angry and/or upset at any time.The CO-PILOT must remain calm at all times unless the PILOT wants him to be angry and/or upset.The CO-PILOT is expected to mind read at all times.The PILOT is ready when he is ready.The CO-Pilot must be ready at all times. Any attempt to document "The Rules" could result in bodily harm.A CO-PILOT who doesn

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D'you reckon you could substitute "Wife" for the word Pilot" Glen?Have a great day!Cliff

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I've found that "wife" and "first officer" are synonomous and, thus, interchangeable. ;>)Glenn"When a man learns how much he doesn't know compared to how much there is to learn, he starts getting smarter."

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Cliff,I don't know how other airlines do it, but at the airlines I was with the pilot not flying (which could be the Captain because most Captains shared the flying with the First Officers)entered the information into the FMC and the pilot flying confirmed it was correct before it was activated. This was also the way an altitude was entered into the altitude alerter. The pilot not flying entered it, the pilot flying confirmed verbally that is what was issued by ATC before leaving an altitude. It's called crew coordination or CRM.And by the way, you are right. The Captain/pilot in command is always the one that is ultimately responsible for everything.Regards,Ed Weber a.k.a Cap'n Tall

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Thank you Ed. That's what I wanted to know.May I put a further question?As my "real" flying was confined to Tiger Moths, Piper Cubs/Cruisers and Chipmoths many moons ago I'm having a great deal of fun scaling the learning curve of the FMC in PMDG's 737-700 aircraft.I'm now trying to imagine how it's used in real life. Hence my query to which you replied.I'd be grateful if you would enlarge on your reply to explain HOW the Captain confirms that the information is correct. Does he consult his own FMC? (I assume each pilot has a separate unit to himself) Regards,Cliff

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CliffNot Ed :-) but can add a couple of pics to show you. The FMC is between the two pilot so any additions are visible to both.Once inserted the way point will be visible on the flight displays again to both Pilots so point "SKERY" would be on the display as SKERY.If the co-pilot had typed in "SCURY" and there was such a point not only would the Captain see that but the point would be off in a direction and distance that neither was expecting.Both would realise a mistake. As Ed states any change is confirmed .Peterhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/104060.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/104061.jpg

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The most apt reply I can respond with is a loud and expressive "Ah haaa!!"NOW I understand. As the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words.Thanks guys.

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Cliff,Ed again. What Peter said and the pictures he added are typical of a corporate Jet. In the 757/767 there are two contol display units (CDU's)and two Flight Management Computers (FMC's). One CDU on the Captains side of the pedistal and one on the First Officers side. Information can be entered from either CDU and is sent to both FMC's. The information that is being entered on one CDU will be displayed on the other CDU. Each pilot checks his/her own CDU to see that the information entered by the other pilot is correct before it is activated.An example of the procedure at the airline I was at for entering the flight plan into the CDU and cross checking for errors was:The First Officer did the exterior walk around inspection while the Captain went to the cockpit and set up the switches and controls for preflight by doing a "Flow Pattern". After this was done, he would enter all the flight plan information (including winds for each leg) from a computer print out into his CDU and activate it. When the First Officer entered the cockpit he set up the switches and controls on his side of the cockpit that the Captain could not reach then he used the same flight plan print out to check the active flight plan using his CDU and if there were any errors he would advise the Captain. Then they would read and respond to the Preflight Checklist.Regards,Ed Weber a.k.a Cap'n Tall

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