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Guest Shalomar

AIRCRAFT DOWNLOADS

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For some time now I have been downloading planes.Both pay/free ware.Like some kid in a toy store ,my eyes just stay wide open.Never met a flying machine I did not like.While many look fine, and are visualy faithful reproductions of a particular model.Yet many leave a lot to be desired in the air.Ultimately the question is "How does it Fly"?Other than looks,and you can get depictions of planes anywhere,and hang them on he wall,you have to come back to the primary feature of a simulator."Does it do a credible job of flying,as near as the real plane you have on your monitor?You can factor in a lot of requirements,and features,but in the end ,"How does it fly"? I now am in the process of cleaning up my hanger. I fly each one,do air work,and make a decision. I'm finding that I'm retiring a lot of planes,both free and pay.The hanger queens are going.I must admit there are some good flyers out there.I have my preferences,in the GA area.I never flew a wide body,so I'll leave those evaluations to others.I wonder what others think re this,both real world/Sim pilots?.In the end I believe that which recreates reality more closely is the one to fly. My hanger is getting very sparse.However, there is always room for the next hot plane,which will be as real as it gets, I hope. "DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY..FOR THE BEST IS YET TO COME" VIN

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I am curious as to whether you have any time spent in the aircraft you retire vs. the ones you keep. What criteria do you use to decide faithfulness to the flight envelope? Your answer may be useful to FDE designers.-John

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Of course you ask the right question,How would one know how a particular aircraft should feel?. My limited experience is in GA aircraft.I do have some flight time in numerous aircraft,as many real world pilots do on this forum.Piper Cubs, a Steerman, a Citibria, a Aeronca,covers my taildragging experience.A C-150,a Cherokee 140B,are two planes I have owned. The C-172,and the C-182 are no strangers also.I have hopped rides in most all GA aircraft. In twins I have flown extensively,but not as PIC, were an Aztec,and a Cessna 310,in an air taxi operation.Tried a glider and an ultralight also,some time in each.I have a lot of greasy,gas smelling clothes also,this since the early 60s, My first first ride was in 1939 at 7yrs old. My ticket is SEL,not instrumented rated. A VFR Pilot. In the heavy metal,or the military category's,I have none,except as a passenger.There are others here who can enlighten us.I can only relate to these aircraft I mentioned. My Sim experience still reflects the love of these aircraft.For over 20yrs I have been siming.Unfortunately this Sim cannot realistically replicate a real world experiences. What it can do however,is familiarize any one with the fundamentals of flight,to know what the inputs can do and result of actions taken.It can also create an interest in Aviation,which may be its biggest asset. We can reproduce the greatest "HARLEY",on the Sim .Both visually, and with the performance of the model.What a Sim can't do is make you feel your riding one.Balance and that feel in the seat of your pants,the vibration's,the wind ,cannot be duplicated in a sim....yet!.My advice to those many talented FDE designers,and they are, would be,get your self up in the air with the plane your working on.Many do,hence the great Sim plane.Know what slips,crabbing,banking,climbing,crosswinds,engine sounds,wind,ETC,ETC do to a plane. They are all different in different planes.That may be a way to get away from the arcade feel,where you drive the plane instead of flying it. I'll finish this windy reply to you with one more suggestion any designer may do,that is, get a copy of Stick and Rudder,by Wolfgang Langewiesche,read it, learn from it, apply it. Thanx for the question. VIN

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Thanks for your answer.I wanted to throw back another challenge. We have many designers, young and old, in this hobby who will never fly in the real thing. They do the best they can, but they fly a sim and write for a sim because their circumstances--financial, political, social--prevent them from being real pilots at whatever point in life they are in. Some of them are uncanny at getting an FDE close, others have talent elsewhere--in CAD (GMAX/FSDS), paint artistry or panel design. Yes, their FDE is an afterthought but they made an effort.An experienced pilot such as yourself--what an opportunity for someone who knows how an aircraft should feel to learn to update FDE's. It's as simple as opening a file in an editor and learning the two or three dozen parameters that make or break an FDE. The heavy metal is tougher--not many get a chance to feel them from a perspective other than that of a pax. Still, you can often extrapolate and arrive at a good hunch as what the heavy metal should feel like. Anyway, my challenge is to ask you to help out since you sound like you can. We have a great designer forum here, and yours would be a welcome presence!-John

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I think that the flight1 172r and the beech a36 are very close to the "real look", 5 stars, (my take). however, the real feel can only be experienced in the air; how about when you find yourself in the elevator "going down", high on final and you have to dump some altitude. i also like the B1900d except that it is a lot like going to work. My 2 cents. Jack WilsonDell8300Pent.R4CPU 3.0 GhzXP-Pro1.00 GB of Ram256MB DDR ATI Radeon 9800 XTSB AudigyDell 19" MonitorCable ModemCH Yoke-Pedals

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Thank you John for your very kind words.To contribute to a hobby we love so much is a labor of love.The same kind of love,and dedication that so many talented designers have contributed ,unselfishly, to this great world of dedicated flight siming.I always thank them for their efforts,and in most instances their gifts to us.How does one evaluate a work of art?. All, are a works of art.Your concept is interesting,and very cleaver. Why not appeal for real input by the many, for the production of successful products?.There are many ,out there in the Sim world who are very talented,and do harbor a wealth of experience,siming and in the real world of aviation.. Were talking about real ,informative input,by intelligent simers,and pilots articulate in flight and the technology which produces this miracle of flight siming. Guys/gals like me represent a different view.The memories of past flights haunt us.We may be content in relieving some of it in this world of simming,this is after all a time machine.The wonderful Bill Lyons is appealing in that direction. There are no jets in his world of "GOLDEN WINGS"This is the world of the young.From their ranks you will continue to find the the talent,vision,the hero's and the dream of flight,both in the future,and in its roots of the past.Look for them ,you may not have far to go.Many of these posts here are brilliant,and do point the way for the future,and a preservation of the past.I will continue to listen to them,and learn. Thank You John, VIN

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That's because Flight1 and Dreamfleet have the resources and policy to do extensive research on real aircraft.Each of their light aircraft (and most or all others) is created as a replica (and as exact as FS and budget allow) of a single real aircraft.That real aircraft is photographed in minute detail, all sounds are recorded on that same aircraft, and the flight characteristics noted down and later compared with that aircraft.They also take whatever time it takes to get it right, even if it means delaying the release by several months (as happened with the ATR).Not many designers have such resources at their disposal (if only because many focus on aircraft that aren't accessible to the average pilot for whatever reason).

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Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I don't have many payware aircraft, believe it or not only two for FLY II and one for MS.Whoops, I do have a few that used to be payware for MS...Do I like my PMDG Beechcraft 1900 C better than my Veneveonnes Rockwell Turbocommander 690B? No. Do I think I got ripped off? No. Would I buy it again? Yes. Right now my only regret is that I didn't wait until AFTER they stopped giving the proceeds to Katrina victims.Payware does fill a niche, some planes are only available that way. I am fortunate I have never been burned.I do feel guilty about buying the 1900 as a "gift" for my brother cuz it was over my computer's specs to run...We were up in the Extra 300 last night and he loved flying it, but the ground handling is... Default J-3ish sometimes. I think I'll get him a Realair Marchetti to salve my consience.Best Regards, Donny

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