Disallusioned Frame Rates

[Guest]

Hi Guys, I'm really DesperateI have fought and battled to make my sceanery, using Arch2002 and Airport 2.6, treachous learning curve!!!!!Not a large airfield, two hangers and two Portacabin buildings, ideal first project I thought.Now in order to get decent frame rates, 24fpm, using Gary Summons Birmingham (EGBB), as a comparision. I am having to put to many details that I have constructed on to either, dense or very dense. I am using FSDS for macro's I have constructed and Gerrish Grays trees, in close scale to construct hedgerows.I am trying to learn about scasm code but have only found Justin Tymes, Facts 2.1 web page and Scasm doc's.May be the Graphic frontend programmes, are bad for frame rates, they may produce sceanery, what's the use if the pc's can't deliver the sceanery.I am using a 1.4XP Athlon and 512Mb of PC2100 ram, with a G4 Ti4400 graphics card. This I suspect is far greater, than most peoples rig's!!!I need to know what is acceptable in terms of frame rates, obvioously Gary summons writes his own code which I suspect is where the answer lies. Otherwise there can be no future for me in scenery design, if the tools I use aren't writing suffient code to deliver the goods.Am I doing something really silly, or expecting to much!!!!!Please helpRegardsDave

[arno 1]

I don't think that the grafical tools give a bad framerate by definition. You must just always keep in mind what level of detail is needed to represent what you are designing. With some of the tools it is easy to over-do something.Of course for some problems writing your own SCASM/BGLC code can give better frames. But for simple projects (small airfields, etc) I don't think the gain is very large.ArnoMember NL2000 Teamhttp://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen

[Guest]

Hi Arnothanks for your replyFind it frustrating that a small airfield that I am trying to design, no fewer than Two hangers and two porta buildings, takes such a hit on frame frames.Just unable to design the level of detail that I would like.How do people like G summons get 25fpm for international Airports like Birmingham(EGBB). surely it must be possible to achieve similar results for a small Rural Ga Airfield, Welshpool, UK.Realise you are not familiar with this airfield, but there is not alot there.Gerrish Gray is kindly helping me with some of my macrosThanks again

[Guest JR Morgan]

Hi Dave.. Yes, it's a little bewildering that with your system as described you aren't getting better rates -- or more importantly, experiencing smoothness.You've probably already gone through all this but here are some things I did, using the lower performing GF2 TI2 to greatly improve video rensponses:1. Make sure T & L is enabled in the FS2002 hardware settings and if listed, in your video card tweak utility.2. Use a utility (I used "nvTweak") and gingerly, one at a time, make some parameter changes on the GeForce 4's recommended adjustable parameters.Finally, I find that setting the Frame Rate Limiter to something reasonable, i.e.: between 15 and 20 FPS to start, will end-up giving you smoother performance in the most dense sceneries.BTW, using this GF2 TI2 and am getting a solid 20 FPS with the limit set to 20. You can increase the limiter if you wish, however, It doesn't really seem to buy a lot except for a hotter heat sink; at least that's my experience.If you've not already done it, you might want to post on the FS2002 (general discussion) forum and find out how people are tweaking the FeForce 4's..Good Luck;J.R.

[arno 1]

For small airport the performance shouldn't be a problem. I am also working on some small airfields. And one of them has about 5 buildings, a bunch of trees and some other small details (places to store bikes, pieces of old a/c, etc) and I still get high framerates (above 30, that's the framerate I have locked it on).So I think you must have used some macros that are really framerate killing. Have you removed all polygons that are not visible etc? (which program did you use to make the macros btw?)ArnoMember NL2000 Teamhttp://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen

[Guest]

Hello DaveI agree with Arno. FSDS/Architect/APT do not make bad performanceby definition. A real progress will, however, come with the newbglc commands, if you have multiple high complex objects addedin the scenery. Wait for the next FSDS - maybe you will get somenew features...When using FSDS: The most important way to improve framerates isto include as much objects into one large project as possible.One of the worst enemies for framerates is the "Area" command. Andif you add lots of multiple single 3D macros, you will get multiple"Areas" separated for each single object, taking a lot processingperformance.But in FSDS, you can use a bmp image as "backdrop". Generate multiplebuildings as parts, and place them using the accurate backdrop,and insert it to Architect/APT as a single macro. Or - use FSDSdirectly to compile to a separated bgl.When creating multiple object parts with FSDS, you will sometimesget the scasm error message: "...out of range... linebuffer exceeded". This means the scasm linebuffer is exceeded with longscasm files. That does not matter. Add the following line to thetop of the macro text:Set( linbuf 64000 )and scasm will compile it again.I suppose that GMAX has a real performance advantage only if theobject hits the 10000 polys or more border. You will seldom reach thatin normal scenery. So you can still use FSDS and have fun... but:try to integrate and include as much as possible.Andreas

[Guest luissa]

>in the scenery. Wait for the next FSDS - maybe you will get >some >new features... Dear Andreas,Do you know anything about a new FSDS ? That would be very interesting and very well appreciated!I agree 100% with you about the performance dependence on the GUI tools for scenery design. And, for me, the main aspect in choosing such a tool, certainly is the possibility of having an intermediate stage of control, instead of a direct compiled BGL file.Regards, Luis

[Guest]

Hi all, thanks for the repliesI had two hangers which had several external parts, doors, drainpipes and a complex tower on top of the hanger. I have since redesigned the two hangers as simple boxes and am trying to incorporate the detail in the textures. But I have to say that there has only been about a 2-3 fpm advantage. Facing away from Builings, in spot mode on the ground, facing runway. 24-27rpm.I don't fine any macro that I have designed creates any hugh frame rate dip. Using very small scale factor (0.02) on ground polygons to get decent radi'sI am in the process of going through my textures, and ensuring that they are extended bitmaps. some were just saved from psp7 as bitmaps!I think what really confuses me is other sceneries are far more complex, Internation Airport(EGBB) achieving 25fpm on my system.I am in the process of learning the scasm code, good tutorial site;http://mat@combatflight.de/html/scasm-tut/scasm1_eng.htmlI response to Luis, I emailed abacus this was their response to FSDS;"Plans for an upgrade have been underway for a while now. We hope to have an official announcement shortly."Finally I have to thank Gerrish Gray, who has been helping me with my Scenery.I will try the suggestion's put forward, although I think my scenery design is the problemThanks again for the supportRegards Dave