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Guest Claviateur

New issue. Any idea please?

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Hi,I noticed a new issue in my scenery and I was very surprised that I did not notice it before. I have traced for my scenery Centerline and Sideline taxiways markings (like those in FS2002) using the plugin in Architect2002 (compiled with FreeSc) however I noticed that the Autogen is excluded at a wide range around the airfield. I started disabling objects and recompile and reload FS sceenry until I found that the taxilines are the cause. Actually they are traced using 1 single refpoint and in the program I just use Breaks to take the line to somewhere else. Therefore all my airport is covered with 1 centerline taxiway object and 1 sideline taxiways object. Can it be the cause?Here I paste from the .sca file the beginning of the centerline code:; Taxiway Markings Plugin: Taxi MarkingsArea( 5 33.828710 35.502460 10 )LayerCall( :doit 40 )Jump( :exit ):doitRefPoint( rel : 0.304800 33.828710 35.502460 )TaxiMarkings( 0x89 -10.654060 9.645332 0x89 -250.927430 -336.725982 0x00 0x89 -213.192584 -501.242500 0x89 99.379504 -744.649617 0x00 0x89 -283.685420 -589.949142 0x89 -127.761125 -718.390048 0x00 0x89 -140.122347 34.964097 0x89 -2014.909045 -2622.554213 0x00 0x89 -86.863924 -1035.646716 0x89 -129.113689 -1000.104036 0x00 0xc4 -115.547959 -701.790767 0xc4 -127.750408 -718.384414 0x0d 0x89 -129.141113 -1000.109820 0xc4 -117.460683 -1015.721987 0x00 0xc4 -242.446953 -324.514729 0xc4 -250.949752 -336.731335 0x0d 0x89 -213.192735 -501.240852 0xc4 -201.363641 -510.456317 0x00 0x89 -455.228542 -632.940323 0x89 -811.109384 -1150.406484 0x00 0xc4 -272.129395 -599.459210 0xc4 -283.709563 -589.945749 0x0d etc...Do you see anything unusual in the header of this taxiline code so it is excluding autogen that wide?Thanks and Happy New Year :)Michel

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I don't see anything special to that source, looks OK to me. Until now I thought that runways were the cause of autogen dissapearing most of the time, but it is interesting to see that taxilines can also have an influence.But I don't have a solution (or an idea) to solve it (at the moment).Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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For the longest time I thought the loss of autogen was caused from a hard coded Area16 at default airports but now I don't have any idea if Area16's are even used at all. Wouldn't it be just great if the FS developers gave us a de-compiler. We could pick up allot of information from that for sure.Just my thoughtsKen

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Hi Arno and Ken,Thanks for the replies. Actually if you have my scenery (OLBA2002) installed you can try to disable temporarely the file OLBA2D.BGL and you will notice that the Autogen gets so close to the airport and will fill those big empty areas around the airfield. Of course there will still be small halls of emptiness caused by the runways but most of the big empty areas will be filled with the autogen... Actually the taxilines code is the one causing this. I will try the transformcall technique now and I will see if it can bring any solution to it like it was the case with the photogridYup new discoveries :)Michel

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Ok a little clue now. The centerlines are not the cause but the Sidelines are. Now this is no more the global taxiline object issue but the sidelines have either something in their structure that went wrong or a bug in the code itself. I am still trying thingsAnd the transformcall technique does not seem to relocate the sidelines at all. I do not see them drawn ... This is what I tried:Area( 5 33.828710 35.502460 10 )Uvar( $Lat0 33:49:2.241296 )Uvar( $Lon0 35:29:23.355961 ) ;then your ScaleUvar( $Scale 0.304800 ) ;now the latitude and longitude where you want to place your RefPoint();in the present case shifted 30 seconds to the East and same latitudeUvar( $Lat1 33:49:2.241296 )Uvar( $Lon1 35:26:53.146721 ) ;now evalute the shift in delta_unitsUvar( $DX [111120 / $Scale * cos($Lat1) * [$Lon0 - $Lon1] ] )Uvar( $DY [111120 / $Scale * [$Lat1 - $Lat0] ] ) ;finally the modified RefPoint() and the reposition TransformCall()LayerCall( :doit 40 )Jump( :exit ):doitRefPoint( rel : [$Scale] [$Lat1] [$Lon1 + 0.00008] v1= 37040 v2= 6000 )TransformCall( :rot [$DX] 89 [$DY] 0 0 0 0 0 0 ) TaxiMarkings( 0x89 -10.654060 9.645332 0x89 -250.927430 -336.725982 0x00 0x89 -213.192584 -501.242500 0x89 99.379504 -744.649617 0x00 0x89 -283.685420 -589.949142 0x89 -127.761125 -718.390048 0x00 0x89 -140.122347 34.964097 0x89 -2014.909045 -2622.554213 etc...CheersMichel

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Ok here is my final diagnostic to the problem:-I was mistaken in the previous post when I said the sideline were the only ones excluding Autogen. I was wrong indeed. Both sidelines and centerlines are the cause and here are the reasons:-The number of points in 1 refpoint tracing using the break command. Too many points cause more autogen exclusion. Yet deleting them by dozens will bring back autogen by and byAND/OR- The location of a specific point or ensemble of points delete Autogen from a zone around this point. Yet by removing points near the areas where autogen should be (i.e: edges of the airfield layout) then autogen will be back. Now I do not know how to bring a solutoin to this. Suggestions are welcome. I hope Transformcall can work ?!CheersMichel

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Hi Michel!I do not know if this will concern You but I have also observed that two things can reduce or exclude autogen: too large scenery area (well, I am using FSSC, but probably Airport and Architect also have same effect) and the worst autogen exluder are old style roads!! Do check if You have used old roads as thin lines anywhere, maybe this will regain autogen also.HTH and best regards,Goran BrumenFS Slovenija 2002 teamhttp://slovenia.avsim.net

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Hello Michel...I'm having good taxilines results without penalty to autogen using the following "rules of thumb":1) Using RefPoint( 7 instead of "Rel" and keeping the values for V1 and V2 to the smallest possible values that yield good visibility of the taxilines when flying/taxiing near the taxilines; i.e. for a 1.5 km taxiway, I used V1= 5000 and V2= 400. 2) Using No TransformCalls.Using SCASM 2.88 to write the taxilines macros. I've spent lots of time in referring taxilines to a single ref point but actually have not seen any appreciably increased frame rates on my system by doing that as opposed to drawing the lines for each individual taxiway/ramp etc (Athlon XP2000+, 512mb DDR 2700 RAM & nVidia 2/TI200). J.R.

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Hi J.R,Thanks for the tips. Actually I used 1 refpoint not for frame rate but to make the whole point match perfectly in FS. I will try your Refpoint tip and will see if it works. Cheers!Michel

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I don't want to spoil the fun, but RefPoint type 7 is the same as rel. Just like type 2 is the same as abs. I think they added the names for persons that don't like numbers :).Also, you write you use a v2 of 400 for a 1500 meter taxiway. I assume you mean there that the taxiway is 1500 meter long in total? I would assume you need a v2 of 750 then at least (if the RefPoint is exactly in the middle). With too small values of v2 I have had dissapearing objects.Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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>>I don't want to spoil the fun, but RefPoint type 7 is the same as rel. Just like type 2 is the same as abs. I think they added the names for persons that don't like numbers<<**Hi Arno... No arguement about their being the same. It's just that being lazy, I'd prefer to type 1 number instead of 3 letters :-).>>Also, you write you use a v2 of 400 for a 1500 meter taxiway. I assume you mean there that the taxiway is 1500 meter long in total? I would assume you need a v2 of 750 then at least (if the RefPoint is exactly in the middle).<<**The V2= 400 is exactly what I ended-up-with, for an approx 1500 meter long textured polygon taxiway with SCASM 2.88 taxilines. This was a result of testing to assure good visibility of the taxilines AND no loss of an autogen bldg group approx 300 meters away from this taxiway. BTW, (to go a little farther against 'theory'), the RefPt for the taxilines in this case is NOT in the center of the taxiway object, rather, It's at one end of it; which I chose to be the starting point for the groups of lines for this taxiway (solid center, double lines at edge and a rwy hold line where the taxiway's apron nears the rwy). This particular taxiway with lines was made by first drawing/writing the textured polygon macro using a top-down bck'gnd bitmap and then going back and writing the code for the lines draw to/from points and then merging the code for the lines into the taxiway macro.>>With too small values of v2 I have had dissapearing objects.<<**Yes, I understand. V2 is always the first parameter I question when I experience disappearing (usually 3D) objects. I usually jump-in and increase V2's value maybe too much --- especially when there's some nearby autogen to be preserved :-) . Do you think there may be a difference on V2's impact when it comes to objects like taxilines as compared to 3D objects? (Pic of taxiway with lines atchd)'Hope St. Nicholas was good to you this Christmas.. J.R.

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>It's just that being lazy, I'd prefer to type 1 number instead of >3 letters :-).Same here :D. I always use the numbers.>**Yes, I understand. V2 is always the first parameter I >question when I experience disappearing (usually 3D) >objects. I usually jump-in and increase V2's value maybe too >much --- especially when there's some nearby autogen to be >preserved :-) . Do you think there may be a difference on >V2's impact when it comes to objects like taxilines as >compared to 3D objects? (Pic of taxiway with lines atchd) Normally the v2 value is the radius of a circle from the RefPoint where the entire objects fits in. Your tests show that a smaller value seems to work for taxilines, so that give me the conclusion that for this type of objects the v2 value might have less influence. But I haven't tested this, so just a guess.>'Hope St. Nicholas was good to you this Christmas.. He was, but not with Christmas, in the Netherlands we celebrate St. Nicholas on St. Nicholas Day (5th of December) :).Arno


Member Netherlands 2000 Scenery Team[a href=http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen]http://home.wanadoo.nl/arno.gerretsen/banner.jpg[/a]

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Hi Arno and JR,I tried the tips JR gave me but unfortunatly it did not work. I also got the taxilines disapearing when I get away from the refpoint location due to the small V2 value I guess and due to the fact that my taxilines are drawn with 1 single refpoint for the entire airport to make all points touch perfectly. Now I did other tests wish revealed positive in some way although not all autogen around my airfield was restored.What I did first is change in Architect2002 the drawing priority of the taxilines objects. By puting the centerline one before the sideline object, I brought back a good amount of autogen geting closer to the north side of the airport. What still left empty is a square on the east side hill... I do not know why it made those autogen come back to life by changing the object drawing order in Architect but it works.Another weird discovery: I went to the code generated by Architect and I tried the transform call code for the sidelines but kept the centerlines as they were and behold all the autogen were there ! However the transformcall did not draw the sidelines, they were just not there. So I said ummm maybe the sidelines are the cause. I went to architect and disabled the compiling of the sidelines and kept the centerlines but the autogen were not there. So basically this is not the sideline issue but maybe the transformcall relocated the refpoint and maybe that helped even though the lines were not redrawn were they should be or anywhere else I could locate... So I do not know what is 100% excluding autogen in the taxline code but perhaps its a refpoint story or the amount of points or the location of a point or an esemble of points near an autogen area. I still would love to understand what is making those buildings vanish at specific spotsThe runways are doing the same thing but this is another story :)Cheers!Michel

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Gday,For my first post on avsim, I hope it's something useful.I too have just expereinced the illusive 'disappearing autogen' problem, however, it had absolutly nothing to do with taxiway markings.I have a rather extensive network of taxiway lines (FS2002 arc method) on photoreal ground textures, also with the relevant flattens and a few excludes (the project is Moorabbin Airport, Australia)The autogen only began to vanish when I placed a semi-detailed object at the southern end of the airport (the objects where power poles, several of which have red beacons on top, as in real life)All the objects are gmax and there are quite a few of them (well over 1000 individual parts)The power poles compiled to around 300kb (I know, pretty heavy for gmax objects, but they looked good ;-) )Anyway, the cause of my autogen disappearing act was the poles... the rest of the scenery has the autogen working perfectly... If you think this may help, and you need/want further explaination, ask away. (brad@aussim.com)The question I would ask of you is: Have you got any such detailed objects in your scenery? If so, get rid of it and see the result.Good luck,Brad Disherwww.aussim.com

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