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A list of all FS2004 default coast/shorelines and their...

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I just accidentally stumbled on a feature of the default shore/coastlines that I didn't know: At least some of the many default shore/coastlines have the ability to automatically change to a snow-covered appearance when there are nearby ground textures that depict snow.This makes it very obvious that these textures should be used for shore/coastlines of lakes and rivers located in areas that receive snow in the winter. Is there a comprehensive web-based list somewhere of all FS2004 default coast/shoreline textures and their full feature sets, perhaps with pictures showing the look of the textures (for example: Perennial Lake, Swamp, wave effects, surf effects, winter-enabled)? Ground2k shows pictures and lists some of the individual features of each texture, but it does not mention anything about this winter feature, which makes me wonder what else I don't know about the coast/shorelines.Thanks for any assistance,Peter

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Hi Peter,I'm not aware of any comprehensive catalogue of those textures but there actually aren't as many as one would believe and it's quite easy to check them out.Grab TView here: http://www.mnwright.btinternet.co.uk/programs/tview.htm , install it, and point it to your FS9SceneryWorldtexture directory. The shoreline files are at the very end (you might want to just copy and paste them all into a working directory for easier inspection).Also, open a copy of your terrain.cfg in a text editor and look for the shoreline section. This will tell you which shorelines are attached to which texture number and whether they have seasonal variations.What we really need, IMO, are better (i.e., more realistic) texture sets. Maybe one of these days I'll get around to starting on some...Cheers, Holger

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>What we really need, IMO, are better (i.e., more realistic)>texture sets. Maybe one of these days I'll get around to>starting on some...Hi!A friend of mine (thanks Erik!) tipped me on the shoreline textures of this package by Lennart Arvidsson (who has b.t.w hinted that a new set of textures for FS2004 is well on the way);http://www.flightsim.no/cgi-bin/file/searc...uery=sognefjordThey are in a way varying and gives a better look than the default textures - well worth a download!/hans

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Holger, thank you for the tip. I didn't realize that the information was right there in the sim.Also, regarding Lennart's textures, I didn't want you to think I wasn't considering your earlier advice as I did. I whole-heartedly agree that the default textures are too "cartoon-like." The issue was that I had just about completed my "Lakes of the Adirondacks" project, which actually grew into the "Lakes, coastlines, and rivers of NY State," when I read your recommendation and perhaps was in an 11th hour rush to get the enhancement up to Avsim's file library before the commercial US coastlines and lakes packages started hitting the streets.However, your work inspires me and you definitely know your stuff, so I just downloaded Lennart's textures (wish I could read Swedish!) and I will now seriously consider using them for the coastlines in my little project. In the end it will probably make a much better package, as my one complaint all along with my work has been the default coastlines.Best regards,Peter

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Oh, one question about Lennart's textures. Am I allowed to include the relevant textures in a freeware package as long as I give him full credit for the textures? Or am I not allowed to do this?

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Hi Peter,thanks for the kind words. Here's some more inspiration for you: I can pretty much guarantee that any of the "looming" country-wide packages will never have the accuracy and detail as something created with Slarti or Ground2K4. These products use massive data sets crunched by semi-intelligent algorithms with very little post-processing. Thus, all sorts of small and big problems pop up here and there as you can read about in the respective forums. Particular to the water packages, I suspect that most will come with no shorelines and mesh-clinging water. For example, look at the FSfreeware previews screenshots. No shorelines, because it would look ridiculous to have shorelines on every puddle and river channel; since the data are all processed together it's either all shorelines or no shorelines. Mesh-clinging, because most GIS data of water bodies doesn't contain elevation information and the producer would have to use his own raw mesh data plus specific GIS software (or a commercial license of Slarti) to correctly determine lake altitudes.In short, even with all the new roads/lakes/etc. packages available (soon), there will always be a niche for projects that go for a manual or semi-automated approach to provide the best available accuracy and realism. To minimize compatibility issues I'd suggest to make your projects as modular as can be, i.e., shorelines, roads, polys, etc, all in separate layers.As to your question about Lennart's textures. As far as I can tell, the pdf file of Sognefjord doesn't state anything about texture usage by others so you HAVE to contact the author and ask for permission. Never assume the author "won't mind" or you'll be in hot waters soon ;-)Looking forward to the Adirondacks!Cheers, Holger

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Hi all;let me poach my nose a little into this one.what Holger explain is true to a certain point.Facts are - in order to cover a continent - you have to come out of manual or semi-automatic lwm design ideas - or you will never cover not even 1/100 of a continent as North america.this has advantages and disavatanges - ofcourse - especially when i count at polygons for the Usa waters - monre than 200.000 or so and keep going up -this kind of lwm scenery will never be possible by hand - though - you can adjust - the lwm for wider scenery by hand - if you like so and add coastlines with waves etc etc - regarding precision - i completely disregard Holger comments - netherless some corrections - are needed due the wide extent of such king of package.but do not forget - we are talking about the whole of a continent !! a 10.000 times wider scenery than what you will be able to design by hands - and prices for such kind of scenery - will not be much more if not less - than what we see - from Holger Misty Fjords ! - but with the difference that you will be able to fly all the waters system of the Usa - never mind if you get any of my packages from the Mapserver - !! at the cost of less than 1 us $ each. ;) Regarding roads packages - of wide extension - defenetly - hand drawing have to goooooooooo a loooooooooong way before catch up with automatic wide roads coverage scenery.ray

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Hi Ray,thanks for joining the discussion and sharing your thoughts! My comments were in no way meant to criticize any of the large-scale products but rather to encourage freeware landscape designers such as Peter not to stop with their fine efforts.Obviously, no simmer will ever be able to explore an entire continent and its up to him/her whether they prefer a hand-crafted regional or an automated large-scale add-on. Better yet, both types of projects can and often do work together so it's not really a competition (and neither is Misty Fjords, as it is something different yet again).The spatial accuracy of the compiled files is entirely dependent on that of the input data. I don't know what your data sources are but, for example, the 100k DLG data have an error radius of some 100 feet, which a Ground2K4 or Slarti user can easily match or better with carefully georeferenced source data (e.g., 24k DLG maps or DOQQ orthophotos).I certainly agree on the complete road network argument but, again, local detailed work (e.g., leaving out certain roads to avoid autogen exclusion, providing some roads with flattens but not other, making custom textures) can make a small-scale product look much nicer and believable. For example, the preview screenshots of Lennart's new FS9 landclass textures nicely show how a dense road network in mountainous areas, with all roads having flattens, pretty much "destroys" some of the accurate base mesh; one ends up with a mountain made of terraces.There's no surprise in this at all: for anything you can buy (or get for free) in the world, hand-made products tend to be of higher quality than those made on "conveyor belts". That's whay you offer local LWM/VTP scenery projects too, correct? ;-)Cheers, Holger P.S.: sorry for digressing from the shoreline topic!

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Hello Ray,And what is the result?I would call it a work from Dali!We discussed this, 8 month ago with Holger and Jobia in a german forum.We only draw accurate lines, but we do not care about the rest Microsoft gave us to make nice scenery!!I don not agree to Holger, doing it only hand drawing.With wonderful tools, we can but almost every GIS data to the SIM, very accurate.I see it on my machine!But I am not happy with the results myself. Because I can not control my results !!!!And the next problem: Producing only parts means: no buyer will know, if it will fit to the rest of his data! Confusion, because they will not fit together.A lot of data, but not nice results!Holger, did a nice example yet. But do you thing he will get the same respect for his work?Here in Austria it is the same problem.I can buy a product, done very accurate, and consumer compare it with world data!?!We can use the data, but we have to rework them!!!!An other process of handwork!Playing around in the mountains, I know what I am talking about.Kind regardsHorstPS: I hope you can understand my English and my thoughts.

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Dear Holger;yes ofcourse - no problems - and you know well how much i price your work ! you though - what data i use - :for the usa i use tigers lines - wich i convert to polygons where necessary - to give rivers a better shape - as is do not like lines othter than for streams - and that is a very long process as there many many tigers files - but i'm not on my own in doing so. :-jumpy What Horst describe is very true - you need quite alot of hand made labour on top of automatic lwm for waters - indeed waters is by far - more complicated scenery to produce compare to roads scenery - and - therefore before compiling the shape files with Louis Sa Scenery builder - wich i must say - it is an impressive tool - i carefully prepare the forms - to get as clean and labour free post-compilation file - ye - it is alot of work - and a complex work - to make waters scenery - either using slarti or scenery builder - wich are both really good tools.ray

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