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Tom Allensworth

Accusations of Theft

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I just received an email requesting that a post that was made earlier in here not be removed. I cannot accede to that request. I have removed that post as it violates our polices, and puts AVSIM at risk. Whether there are merits to the accusation or not is something that we (AVSIM) cannot judge, or are we willing to get in the middle of. This is NOT the venue for these types of things, and this should be taken to email. Thank you everyone for your cooperation in these types of matters our of our forums.

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Tom,Although I do not have a clue as to which message you are referring, I am surprised by this stance.You mean that if someone steals my creation, and comes to your fora and presents and discusses it as if it was his own, I have no right to intervene and warn your readers that what he is presenting as his own creation, is in fact not his own?One side is silenced, while the other side is free to post?Does not sound fair or right to me...I of course accept that these are your fora and you have the right to set the rules. But I believe you are also interested in our opinions, us being your readers.Stamatis

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No Stamatis, the issue is that we, AVSIM, can neither substantiate or refute the charges. It is one invidual's word against another. As the medium in which that accusation was made, AVSIM can be held accountable, in so far as we, potentially, would have to defend ourselves in a lawsuit. We occasionally make the decision to put ourselves at risk (the Peter Tishma fiasco with AA and our subsequent editorial positions on that), but in this case, we decided that the risk to AVSIM was not appropriate to take. If, on the other hand, you wish to retain a lawyer for us and pay his monthly bills, we will happily allow these types of posts to be remain. But until then, our removal of the messages has nothing to do with taking sides - it has everything to do with facing the realities of the world we live in and the litigious mindset that seems to pervade everything we do today.

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Tom,Thank you for replying. I will not comment any further, you are clear enough, regardless of my agreeing or disagreeing with this position.If, on the other hand, you wish to retain a lawyer for us and pay his monthly bills, we will happily allow these types of posts to be remain.Good marks for sarcasm, low marks for seriousness :-)it has everything to do with facing the realities of the world we live in and the litigious mindset that seems to pervade everything we do today.Well, then I am lucky that I live in a different country, if not a different "world".Stamatis

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Stamatis,I have been here before - sounds like the good old CompuServe days to me .... ?Peter Leadbeater,Air Pierre, Warrington, UK.

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No sarcasm intended at all Stamatis. If you want to cover our legal expenses, I will happily let you set the policies for this forum.

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>No sarcasm intended at all Stamatis.Sounds like it to me!>If you want to cover our legal expenses, I will happily let you set > the policies for this forum. What ever happen to free speech?I guess in the World today the payback for freedom is the cost of the litigation :)Peter.

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Why do you assume that there is something called "free speach" on privately owned forums? Did you in fact read the Policies for Use here? If you did, then you know that there is no such thing as free speach here or on any other forum.

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>What ever happen to free speech? >>I guess in the World today the payback for freedom is the >cost of the litigation :) This exchange reminds me of the 'old' BBS days, when this very topic was endlessly debated, railed against and protested...In fact, it qualified as "the most frequently asked question" not unlike TMFAQ, "why is the wing leveler engaged when I select autopilot!"Unlike a news group, which truly isn't a *place* at all, web-based fora are owned by real, live people who may be held responsible in a court of law, just like any other publishing medium. Likewise, the early Bulletin Board Systems were similarly accountable."Freedom of Speech" is one of the most misunderstood concepts, since the word "freedom" is most commonly interpreted as "without limits."This is entirely the wrong interpretation, since, philosophically speaking, freedom cannot exist in a vacuum. Without any limits at all, it is pure anarchy, not freedom. The concept of "freedom" can only exist when there is something (limits) to be free *from.*Conceptually speaking, one can also exercise "freedom to commit a crime," but no sane person would argue that this is a good thing!In society, whenever anyone's exercise of "freedom of speech" abridges the rights of another person, that is considered a civil crime. Defamation of character, slander, calumny, et alia are civilly actionable. For anyone to knowingly and willingly "publish or allow to be published" such renders them as fully culpable under the law as the offending party.Similarly, aiding and abbetting the commision of a criminal act will make one liable for the crime. How many times have we read about folks who were "just sitting in the car!" when a murder was committed, being tried, convicted and sentenced for that murder?Taking all this, and trying to ground it into a more easily understood example, what would your reaction be to someone attending a party at your house, who chose to exercise his "freedom of speech" by say, making inappropriate, insensitive and vulgar remarks to your wife?Would you not then exercise your right to throw the bum out? What about his vaunted "freedom of speech?" :)

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Nuff said!Here endeth the lesson for today ;)Peter Leadbeater,Air Pierre, Warrington, UK.PS.I still feel for Andy though!

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Bill,Bravo! Superbly said!Happy Flying!Bill MolonyAtlanta GA USAUnder the 27L Approach to KATL--the busiest airport in the world :)(Excersizing my right to free speech) :)

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You feel for Andy do you?He's accusing someone of doing the exact same thing he did. Taking a file that someone else authored, and changing it. Then has the nerve to cry foul.Welcome to the real world, and I don't mean MTV.Go have another pint will ya...Kev

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Excellent response, and as the man said, 'nuff said. This thread is now closed.

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