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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen,I know that most of you do not recognize me. It's been a long time since I've posted (it's been a long time since I've even started up any flight sim at all), but I do read the site at least a handful of times a day.I started thinking a bit ago how maybe I can join the ranks of all of you in helping to improve what we have in Fly, and that lead me to the conclussion that there is something that we can all do.Here's the ideas that I've come up with...1) This product called "Fly!2" is so drastically different then the box that I bought some time ago with the name "Fly!2" on the cover. Perhaps we can begin working together as a mass organization to persuade TRI to re-release this product. Maybe "Fly!2.5". We would need it to be patched up to the newest level, include all of TRI's downloadable extras, as well as requiring the community leaders to offer their own add-ons to the product. This, I realize, would take a lot of persuading, as it would no doubt be a fair number of cd's required. Hopefully they'd see fit to keep the product at a reduced price to encourage the largest number of purchases as possible. To go along with this idea, perhaps we could persuade TRI to go a step further: To give a portion of the proceeds to a worthy cause. Maybe to the Richard Harvey scholarship fund that the flight sim sites have organized. Perhaps to a scholarship fund for Richard's children, or some fund to help his family. 2) We can act as PR. In order for TRI to do step 1, they would obviously need to be convinced of sales potential. Now I think we can all agree that Fly!2 received some not-so-impressive ratings from pretty much every reviewer out there, and I think most of us would agree that those ratings were, at least, somewhat right on the money. And since the horrible day, 9/11/01, the flight sim genre has taken a beating in every press outlet, we need publicity for this product now more than ever. As I mentioned above, this is not the same product I or any of you purchased so long ago.3) There is a huge potential of sales right here on AVSIM. Let's start filling up the screen shot forum so curious sim-geeks can see just how great of a product that they're missing.So what do you think, team? We have created an online community like I've never seen before. Can we do something more with this pride that we all feel?-Brian Hynes

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Nice thoughts, but I think TRI has officially washed their hands of anything related to flight sims at this point, so a new release is almost certainly out of the question (especially a multiple CD release). Anyway, from what I understand the only way TRI could now legally release a version of Fly themselves would be to make much more significant changes to the core program than are possible at this point. Failing that, Take 2 Interactive holds the reins for any more releases, not TRI, and from what I've heard about T2, you'd probably have better luck trying to convince Saddam to step down from his dictatorship voluntarily.But in my view we don't need a new commercial release to get the gospel of Fly! out there and keep it alive and well. We just need to keep doing what we've been doing ... which is continue to make efforts as a community to enhance the product. The hooks are already there in the sim to do so much more even than what has been done to date ... I can scarcely imagine what amazing things could be possible with the combination of this sim and a devoted group of fans.- David Sandberg

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Hallo folks,I like the idea of Brian Hynes but I agree with David.Thinking of a new or renewed release in the near future is not realistic.At this moment publishers are not very interested in flightsim`s.Microsoft FS has a huge part of the market and this creates not muchappetite to compete on this market.But Brian has a point stating that it would be good to publish as muchas possible on the screenshot-forum ( and others I think ) to makeclear to the public that there is a very sophisticated flightsimwich is getting better every day, tanks to the efforts of manyactive people.The FLY2 program is not open-source ( would be nice , is not ) but in my opinion , let`s say half open.When we keep FLY2 improving and make FLY2 more known by a greater public we have a WIN-WIN situation.We get a fantastic FLY2 and the chance publishers are getting intersted again is growing the same time.A market ( any market ) is only healthy when choices can be made.We have Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola two great drinks , why can`t we havetwo really great sims as well?your FLY-friend

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Fly2 needs a purpose in order to thrive. Other sim flyers simply say that their choice offers everything that FLY2 offers and more. So, to thrive, FLY2 cannot be seen like the other sims that have a small following. So what's so great about FLY2? What can you do with FLY2 that you cannot do with fs2002? How does one articulate the experience of flying FLY2 planes? These questions and more require a real strategy behind the efforts of the existing developers. Do we want fly2 to become the most intense IFR sim with all kinds of cockpit toys and let the other sims concentrate on some other aspects of simming? The point is that FLY2 tried to get in the way of msfs and lost becasue of money and lack of aggressive continuing development. If , however, there's a perception( and I don't know) that FLY2 is the Falcon4 of the sims, then we've done a pretty poor job of concentrating our efforts as the Falcon people have. We need leadership, marketing, some money and a real strategy. Even Simvol site is unknown to many new comers, and the fact that it's in French doesn't help. But when one considers Simvol as equal to none, it's sad to see it not advertised more as the FLY2 site for the world, providing the best that there is out there. It's developers have worked quietly and with great pride and devotion. We ( the ones who believe in fly2), let PMDG lose time and money simply because we asked so much and yet were willing to pay so little for their product. Hey, I am 50 and have lived the sim history and clearly don't appreciate this trend toward one sim that fits all. More importantly, we need someone to advertise what one can do with FLY2's open parts of its architecture. I'd like to see a "can do list" that catalogs features, programming skill required, and tools needed. I am very much interested in contributing to FLY2, but I find that whenever I think of adding a feature, I have to spend countless hours figuring out where to start and fear where I might come to a dead end. So, I agree that FLY2 should become FLY2+. We can do this by amassing one file that contains all the goodies that are spread out on the web into one kit. We can test the "financial" strength of our group and determine whether a 10 or 20 dollars yearly fee enables us to channel some initiatives. I don't know, but I sure know that most of us act more as passive users of this wonderful sim than an association, however loose, of fly2 simmers.This is the way I see it.tony

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Yes I agree that we need to do some 'PR' for the sim.Perhaps we need to look at Ken Salters good idea of putting a 'breakdown of ways of improving the sim' ie his post anchored to the top of this forum called 'First Time Flyers read this'.Perhaps this now needs updating. Alas Ken is rarely with us these days and I don't feel up to reformulating that post myself.An example of the problems we face are given by the fact that I recently influenced a stalwart of the dear old Flight Unlimited sim to give Fly!2 a go. His comments were basically (to paraphrase)"oh dear so much patching and tweaking" and then a couple of other things, "I like the cockpits and having to learn the aircraft systems properly but surprised to find the skies aren't blue" and "it glitches rather alot,FS2002 is more fluid".Well all things are true of course but is it that I've managed to 'tweak around them' or am I perhaps refusing to see them anymore.However I do fly FS2002 as well and know that sim has good and bad points as well but I wish it was easier to get people 'into this sim' in an easier manner.I still feel the strong points of Fly!2 make an oustandingly realistic flight simming experience overall.DaveT

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