hawker question

[Guest]

Whyfor can I not enable both alt hold mode and speed hold mode at the same time in the AP?I gather it's supposed to be that way?John/madmax(edit) - additional question: seems like at low airspeeds (160-ish KIAS) I can cruise quite happily at 8 or 10% throttle (roughly 333 PPH/engine). Is that right? My intuition says it seems low, but maybe my intuition is off-kilter.('nuther edit) - the plane seems unhappy if I try to fly with two or more notches flaps without also having the gear down. Why's that? Is there something intrinsically bad about flying around at low speed with 2 notches flaps, but not having deployed the gear yet? Usually I reserve deployment of gear until I've intercepted the glideslope, and use the extra drag to help trigger my decent.Thanks...

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

John,That's correct. Since the Hawker modeled doesn't have autothrottle, its autopilot can either maintain constant speed or constant altitude through pitch control, but not both.There's an addon by Roberto Vigetti in Avsim's file library called ac_default_fix2.zip in the library that, among other things, adds a fictitious autothrottle and autobrake system to the Hawker and other aircraft. Before installing it, make sure you read the attached readme file so you understand all the modifications included. Since it's a single .POD file, installing and uninstalling is extremely easy.Take care,Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

[Guest]

Ok, thanks. I tend to prefer realism as far as I can get it (which is why I'm flying this sim over some others - I certainly couldn't fly a real one, not being a real pilot, but I have the feeling I could step into a real Hawker now and immediately have a fair knowledge of where everything is and how a good fraction of it works). So, I'll probably pass on the fictitious autothrottle and autobrake, just to keep things "as real as it gets".Thanks for the info!John/madmax

[Guest Fly II Pilot]

So do I... Totally agree.Alejandro AmigorenaCheshire, CTFly! II Beta Team MemberAthlon XP 1800ABIT KR7A-RAID768Mb RAMMSI GeForce 3 Ti 500 64MBSB Audigy GamerCH Flight Yoke USBCH Pro Pedals USB

[RandallR 444]

John,The Hawker can deploy 1st flaps (15 deg.) below 220K - also, the gear can be dropped below 220K - but, 2nd flaps (25 deg.) can't be dropped until below 175K, so you really need to hold off on 2nd flaps. Also, on a jet, you need to keep the engines spooled up. They will be too slow to respond if you back off on the power too much - you won't be able to get enough power to recover if you end up below the glideslope late on the approach.I recommend the following:-1st flaps around 210K - increase throttle to maintain about 190-200K-Gear down approaching the glideslope, the plane will begin to slow-2nd flaps at 170K-Full flaps at 150K-Add throttle to maintain 119-120K on finalOr, if you are being forced to go slower by ATC (for instance, they ask you to slow to 180 for the approach):-1st flaps below 220K-Gear down passing through 190-200K-Add power to maintain 180K-Pull a little power off approaching the glideslope-2nd flaps at 170K-Full flaps at 150K-Add throttle to hold 119-120K on finalHope that helps a little.

[Guest]

Thanks Randall, that's useful info. I hadn't yet had a chance to read the Hawker manual, so I was sort of just "winging it". My completely made-up procedure had me dropping 1st flaps around 180 KIAS, 2nd flaps around 150 KIAS, full flaps and gear upon intercepting the glideslope and slowing to 120-125 KIAS around 5 miles out on final.Your point about keeping the engines spooled up is a good one. It's a hard thing for me to make myself do, since it always seems like it wastes energy, but I guess wasting energy is cheap insurance here :)Out of curiosity, how do things work in real life when a/c like this are flying around a pattern at an uncontrolled airport at the same time as pipers and cessnas? A light jet that doesn't want to go much slower than 130 KIAS seems like it would cause trouble in the same pattern as some 152/172s that are happy to tool along at 65 KIAS.John/madmax

[RandallR 444]

John,Though it does occur, it would be rare that a jet would enter uncontrolled airspace, as most uncontrolled airports would not even have runways that would sustain jet operations.I flew in the 70s, and never had any jet enter the traffic pattern of any of the uncontrolled airports I flew into. Now, I would guess they would follow procedure and announce their approach on Unicom so everyone could "get out of the way".Now, in controlled airspace, I shared the pattern with everything from B737s to Learjets and 4-engined military transports. We were carefully separated by ATC - we were also responsible for maintaining safe separation and could also request a go-around, etc. if we thought the situation was unsafe (wing vortice, etc.).When I am flying the approach with the Hawker, I must fly a wider and more extended pattern (which you must do with any more advanced, higher speed aircraft). I fly that approach at 170-180K.

[Guest]

Randall - somehow your reply reminds me of that "urban legend" conversation between ATC and some aircraft - I'm sure you have probably heard it before, but it was something like this (from memory):Tower: Cessna , be advised wake turbulence, United 737.Cessna: Tower, be advised cessna is in FRONT of the 737....short pause...Tower: 737, be advised wake turbulence Cessna 172.

[Guest dajackman]

We had a biz jet land at our small home town airport, runway is about 2900 feet long. What he did was a straight in GPS approch. Made it pretty clear who he was on the unicom. Later that day I took off before him. Pretty cool to see him scream out of there!

[Guest]

If its not what you want it, I pull it back some bits and it is ok for me.Thanks for you helpIvor Bigne

[RandallR 444]

Yep, I've heard that one but it's been awhile - thanks for the grin. :-)

[RandallR 444]

Sheesh! What in the heck was it? Some bizjets can get out of some smaller spaces, but that had to be a screamer.It is my understanding that a number of years ago, a commercial carrier flight crew (can't recall if it was a 707 or DC-8) landed at the wrong airport here in Columbus. They landed at Don Scott (Ohio State University) airport instead of Port Columbus Intl. There is a 5000' strip at OSU and that's apparently what they set her down on.They couldn't get her out though! I understand they had to really strip her down (gut the interior, etc.) before they were able to fly her out. Needless to say, the flight crew didn't have jobs the next day!