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Guest Dann

F-16, anyone?

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With all the excellent work being done by model makers, etc, is there any interest in having an F-16 to tool around in?There are many excellent models and cockpits that might be used, and I'm very familiar with the flight model and performance parameters of the Block 50/52 F-16C and F-16CJ...and I'd LOVE to beta test for it!Just asking, and volunteering what little I can for such a venture.Dan

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Interesting crowd we have here, who fly Flight Unlimited III. MS2002 has something like 128 different F-16's, so there's an obvious interest; this post does not even warrant a view.Oh, well, off to another sim for the Falcon, then!Dan

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Dan, the forum system has changed. Now the views are only updated after replies. If you see 0 views, it doesn't mean that no-one has looked at it, only that no-one still answered.Cristian

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Dan,Don't take it personally, but IMHO FUIII excels at modelling light aircraft under VFR conditions, where the scenery and weather model can be enjoyed to the maximum.A high-performance jet thus just isn't a priority for many here. If we want that, we fly FS2002, or any number of combat simulators. I guess it's just horses for courses? Ian

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Ian: I commend you ! I have never heard it said better. You have just described FU III, and the people who use it perfectly. Let's stay with the nostalgic, prop driven classics here. Or at least keep them our specialty. It's the only way to watch that beautiful scenery go by.

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Sheesh, you guys are so right! What was I thinking...I'll delete the 747 and Beechjet immediately.Dan

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Hi Dan,I, for one, would love to see a flyable F16 in FU3. I think that would be a blast. I worked on them for many-many years and always enjoyed being able to "operate" them in combat sims. It'd be great for me to fly it with this terrain, weather modeling and such. Were you thinking of a single-seater or double?The more different flyable aircraft for Fu3, the merrier is the way I feel about the subject.Jim B.

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Jim,Take your pick, single or tandem. I agree with you, the more varied the aircraft in our sim, the better. MS2002 has over 100 F-16's, and the mere suggestion of buying and installing that game just for an F-16, when FU3 would no doubt do a better job, is unthinkable.I am very familiar with what he flight model of the F-16 should be, from turn and roll rates to fuel consumption and flight systems (I assisted on an F-16 sim, once)...but you sound like you've got the experience where mine is from study and good sources.Well, maybe someday we'll get an F-16. Sheesh, I'd even pay for a good one!Dan

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I think you are mis-understanding my reply!If an F-16 for FUIII were to be produced I would certainly download it and give it a go. I'm sure it would be fun.However...If you were to ask me the question: "Ian, it is within your powers to command the united skill of all FUIII mod-makers to design a plane of your choice: what plane do you want?", I would almost certainly not answer F-16.Does that clarify it?Ian

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If I could've forseen the future in regards to flight sims. I could've made real audios of the F16 engine start sequences, engine sounds at all power ranges-external, and from with-in the cockpit. Would've had real cockpit audio. Wouldn't have done pic's of the cockpit though- that security thing and all. Could've taken pics of the augmentor flames as well(after-burner for the J79 Turbo-jet).Could've done the same for the F4(cartridge starts on these would have been an awesome simulation) and the F15 as well.One of the mistakes I've seen in many F16 models- The engine nozzle should never be open when weight off wheels, idle to military power settings. They only begin to open during initialization of augmentor. Matter of fact, if any thing, you would probably see the nozzle tighten slightly(nozzle position guage) when advancing to mil-as a function of N1 speed and TT2 signals received by the EEC. The only time the nozzle would open between idle and mil is when the aircraft is on the ground, weight on wheels. This circuitry (Idle Area Reset)was designed in to minimize taxi overspeeds, and helped greatly to minimize engine exhaust blast for us poor ole maintenance troops and our equipment on the ground.The JFS doors- I've noticed the modelers have them things painted. Usually they were un-painted, especially the JFS exhaust door due to the high JFS exhaust gas temperatures(EGT).Been a while since I retired, but the above are the specs as I remember them. Me and my memories would appreciate any corrections.You all take care,Jim B.

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Ian, It sort of answers my question; but if you are do not create 3D models nor edit flight models, I wasn't really talking to you...but thank you for your input, negative as it was.Jim,I think Falcon 4.0 models the nozzle and nozzle color correctly: no paint and open at idle, weight on wheels. Touch the throttle, and it starts to close; in the air, I'd have to check. It just might open up at idle...and that would be incorrect, right?What F-16 sims are you familiar with?Dan

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Hi Ian,I to have Falcon 4.0. I can't remember what revision. It's been maybe 6ish months since I downloaded the development teams latest upgrades. They made many-many improvements to the original. Compared to USAF, FA, and models available for FS2002, I think F4.0 beats them hands down(simulating engine operation and textures of the exterior and in the cockpit). I'm not saying the others are not good, just making comparisons to the jets I worked thats all. Think I'll fire up Falcon 4.0 just to admire it.From my previous post I should add that the F16's I worked on had the Pratt & Whitney F100PW200 tubo-fan engines in them. Current F16's now have the F100PW220 (same as in the F15E Strike Eagle) and GE F100-110. (I'm really trying to stir around in my brain-pan now. Been a long while since I've talked F16 stuff).Take care, Jim B.

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I just checked, Falcon with the latest SuperPack opens the nozzle at idle even when in the air.I have no idea if this is correct or not though.Cristian

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HI Fellas,I fired up Falcon 4.0 SP, went to reference and the F16 reports to have the GE F110-GE-100 in it. Well, I was kinda close in the previous post fo the GE engine model number. I started a take-off training mission to observe the engine on the ground and in the air. I was to lazy to bring the 3 ring binder manual and never could figure out how to get an external view. Watching the nozzle gauge, it seemed as if it indicated closed idle to mil in-air, open at idle on the ground and would follow the throttle(closing) as it was increased.A new thing I noticed about the rpm's. Real world max rpm is typically about 94% rpm, in the sim it would indicate above 100% at mil and increases when augmentor was initiated. That would be incorrect. N2 RPM's (thats was the RPM indicator is reporting you, % RPM of the core (N2) compressor) maximum is generally determined on the engines final trim settings, and would not exceed that unless the fuel control system was beginning to malfunction. So typically, were you to operate an engine at Military power, N2 would be at 94% max rpm, nozzle 0-20% closed, FTIT about 925 deg C, Fuel Flow 8900 pph.So, if a flyable F16 were born for FU3, I'd suggest the above spec's would be about right for the egine flt model for miltary engine operation.I'm farely certain General Electric designed in a idle area reset system on their engine as well. Photo's of an F16 in-flight with the GE in it will show the nozzle closed, unless the aircrft is in 'burner.Jim B.

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Hi Jim,To have an outside view of the aircraft in Falcon 4 just press "0" (zero). Bye,Cristian

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