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Guest andy9164

Modifying Models

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Sorry if I am posting a lot, but I have been "bitten by the FU3 bug".After my success last night at making an imaginary airport and placing it into the UK South scenery, I have decided to try and develop a real airport that can be used by all.I have the plans and can lay down the buildings, taxiways, lines, stationary models etc but my problem comes with runways.Can anybody tell me how easy it is (and how to) change one of the tarmac runways already available. I can use any tarmac runway from any region but I need to adjust the length and the runway numbering.Please let me know if there is a "simple" way or do I have to talk nicely to the forum and ask someone to change the existing models for me (I actually need 2 runways).ThanksAndy

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Ansgar,Thanks for your help.OK so far I tried some investigation.I looked in a bin file (conc10.bin) and found it refered to a file called con10.gif. but no mip files.I tried using fixmip as you suggested but i dont see an option to convert a mip file to a gif file.Any ideas or am I not understanding your instructions properly.ThanksAndy

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I'm also happy to help. I can send you the models and MIP files if you want to do the development yourself, or you can send me the required dimensions and numbering and I will post the runways back to you. If you have a picture of the runways, then I can match markings.If you can wait about a week, I am hoping to make improved runway textures. Recently Ansgar commented that its time to improve the basic runway textures. He was very nice about it, simply suggesting that there were about 40 or 50 things I was doing wrong, but I haven't had time to get back to this (too busy building trains). With your prompting I think that might be the incentive I need to make better runways.You're getting very busy Andy!RobD

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Robert,Thanks firstly for the offer and also the many great addons you post to keep improving the game.I think once I get to grips with the basics I would quite enjoy the challenge, but I cant quite seem to get a "sequence of events" as to what I need to do when using which tools.Looking at the hex files took me back to my college days when I studied processors and communications, but it steadily came back.Is there a step by step outline on how to build. So far I undertstand Gif to Mip, so my idea was to build a runway as one gif file with the numbering lines etc. already on. and then convert to a mip using fixmip. That bit I think I could do. Would it work is the question.And then what is the relationship between the Mip and the BIN? and where do I put the files?So many questions.Please keep posting and adding on.Andy

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Hello Andy,first of all: Robert is the best choice for this questions from you! He also has made some good How-To tutorials for making runway

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Ansgar,Thanks for the links.I am starting hopefully easy as they are flat with the build runways.zip, hopefully this allows me understand a little more. Then I can move onto models, but with so many good developers outthere I can generally find something suitable in one of the regions.As soon as I have made some progress will post some pictures.Thanks again.Andy

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Ansgar, no misunderstanding at all! I will certainly try to improve the runways as fast as I can and was not upset in any way by your suggestions - they are excellent and will help a lot. I welcome your suggestions and shouldn't have joked about it in the previous posts as it might discourage you and others from spotting things that could be improved. Enough on that!To Andy,You suggest using one graphic for the whole runway. This causes the dreded stretched pixel problem, where your gif is cramped across the runway and stretched along it.The method I used (and based on the BIN files, Looking Glass also)was to break the runway into segments, each approx square, so that the pixels will be approx square too!Its easier and harder than it sounds. You make a separate picture for each square, but many are repeated and this is very easy to do. Some squares are direction-dependent, especially the Numbers. These squares must be reversed.The easiest way to do this is if I send you a template to work from.Now here's the bad news (for me) - my computer has crashed - I am grounded until I can repair it (when I say I, I use the Royal I meaning a host of technicians who wouldn't let me near it during repairs if their lives depended on it) so I can't send you stuff now. But what's on the web should help. It includes a template.Some daffynitions:GIF - texture source file in GIF formatMIP - texture source file converted to a multi-distance graphicfor use in FU3.BIN - actual point and vertex model of runway, created from a text "e" file, as used in FU3.E file - text file used to build the BIN model, easy to edit and compiled to a BIN file using a program called BSP.(I am using a work computer for this)RobD.

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Robert,A bit of a long post this......sorry.Sorry to hear of your predicament with your PC and just when things were getting interesting.I used your "Make runway" info pointed to me by Angsar and have made some good progress in my understanding, but as always I have problems.What I am trying to do is put 2 images side by side as a test but keep getting errors in "make" to do with vertices even though I cut and paste my .e for from one of your Heathrow .e'sI will e-mail the files if you would be kind enough to have a look when you get back on line.But another question to help with runway lengths. Here is an extract from my .e filePOINTS{-80,22.5,0-80,-22.5,080,22.5,080,-22.5,0}Am I correct in assuming that the -80 represents a set distance to the left of the x-centre and 80 is towards the right. Same for 22.5 is this 22.5 above the Y centre and -22.5 below, therefore giving an image of 160 log by 45 wide. What measurements do these represent, metres? Also, on some of your bigger runways they span from say -950 to 950 but the increments between them are not constant e.g. -950, -928 -897 etc. Why, when we are using images which are all the same size. And finally triangle numbering also plays into the vetices question earlier. could you send me a diagram of say 3 squares divided into triangles with the points numbered, this might be my problem.If you could explain these and the error with my .e I am sure I will be that one step closer.Really appreciate your assistance and hopefully will be out of your hair soon.Kindest RegardsAndy

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OK so cant attach en attachment to your e-mail so here are the files.Andy

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"I used your "Make runway" info pointed to me by Angsar and have made some good progress in my understanding, but as always I have problems.What I am trying to do is put 2 images side by side as a test but keep getting errors in "make" to do with vertices even though I cut and paste my .e for from one of your Heathrow .e's"BEGIN "test"MATERIALS{1,"STRIPES",FLAT,TMAP "RUNa10.GIF",100,TRANSP 0;}POINTS{-80,22.5,0 point 0-80,-22.5,0 point 180,22.5,0 point 280,-22.5,0 point 3}PARTS{4,N,0, 1,(2,0,1); this defines a triangle of points 2, 0 and 1.4,N,1, 1,(2,1,3);4,N,2, 1,(4,2,3); 80,22.5,0-80,-22.5,080,22.5,080,-22.5,0}Am I correct in assuming that the -80 represents a set distance to the left of the x-centre and 80 is towards the right. Same for 22.5 is this 22.5 above the Y centre and -22.5 below, therefore giving an image of 160 long by 45 wide. "YES. And the third entry is the height in the same units."What measurements do these represent, metres?"Depends on the scale flag set in BSP. A scale flag of 1 will give you the model correctly scaled in meter."Also, on some of your bigger runways they span from say -950 to 950 but the increments between them are not constant e.g. -950, -928 -897 etc. Why, when we are using images which are all the same size."I have divided the runway into sections based on actual photos of the runway, so that the segment lengths should be correct. Note that the MIP doesn't have to be exactly square, but I try to keep each segment approx the same to make it more uniform.The segments are therefore chosen on the basis of runway markings, not on the size of my graphics (within reason - I want to avoid a stretched feel to the textures). And if the markings repeat, I can also repeat the texture as follows:2,(0,1),(0,0),(1,0);3,(0,1),(1,0),(1,1);repeats the GIF once, but2,(0,1),(0,0),(5,0);3,(0,1),(5,0),(5,1);repeats the GIF 5 times in the x-direction."And finally triangle numbering also plays into the vetices question earlier. could you send me a diagram of say 3 squares divided into triangles with the points numbered, this might be my problem."I can give you one square. I have to charge extra for 3 squares.0-------2|......./.||...../...||.../.....||./.......|1-------3This is a square with points numbered 0 to 3, and corresponds to the example above. The diagonal divides the square into two triangles, (2,0,1) and (2,1,3).The PART_MAPPINGS command defines how to stretch the GIF picture (actually a MIP picture by this stage) over the four points. So a mapping of (0,1) defines the top left corner of the MIP, (0,0) is the bottom left corner, (1,0) is bottom right and (1,1) is top right. Any point (x,y) between (0,0) and (1,1) can be defined, but for runways I usually use just the corners. The mapping is to the vertices of the two triangles. So part 0 has three vertices (points 2, 0 and 1). Compare these two lines, one defining the triangle PART 0, the other defining the PART MAPPING for point 0:4,N,0, 1,(2,0,1);0,(0,1),(0,0),(1,0);then you can see that Point 2 is mapped to (0,1), Point 0 to (0,0), Point 1 to (1,0). If I mapped them in a different way, then I would get a different orientation of the MIP onto Part 0."Really appreciate your assistance and hopefully will be out of your hair soon."You're not in my hair. If you can master this, you will save me so much work. I don't want to do all UK by myself. All the best with this,RobD.Kindest RegardsAndy

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Robert,"I'm out of your hair".Absolute biggest thanks for all your help. I managed to make my first basic runway 05/23 using your gifs etc and now have a good undertanding of what you were trying to tell me. Your explanation to my questions last night and BANG!!!!! it suddenly clicked.So attached is a zipped up .bin file called run00.bin........my runway.I now need to add the markings, make it longer, use more points so I dont lose the resolution, and generally make it more detailed, but hey, the worlds my oyster. Suppose I could make taxiways and concrete now to fit properly in my airport.Thanks again.Andy

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I also just learnt about "modelview" that you also need to enclose the mip files for it to work.:-)Have resent the zip file (now with mips)Andy

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I can't check your BIN file for now, but it sounds like you have succeeded. Congratulations! Word of warning: when you "publish" your runway make sure it has a unique name. And if you change the MIP files (repaint them), eg to change numbers, also make sure you change their name and their reference in the e-file, to avoid runway clashes like we seem to be having at Southampton!All the best,RobD.

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Rob,The thought of numbering had crossed my mind so have tried to be unique but at first hit problems with name lengths, but sorted that out and kept them to an acceptable length.(6 characters I think)For the repaints, again, I made a new mip which as far as I can see has a unique name.And for the runwyas, last night I built 2 runways, correct length, width, numbering etc and put them in my airport. Now looks better. I even got a bit clever by "duplicating" the files for the middle section 16 times so I had fewer points and less mapping to do.All in all only took me a couple of hours.Couldn't have done it without you.Andy

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Hi Andy,then I can send you now a nice: "Welcome in the FU3 developer team!" :-D :D

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Thanks Angsar, but I have a long way to go yet.some screenshots attached.Still taxiways and nicetys to sort out but am making good progress.Thanks for the encouragement.Andy

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.............And what I didn't realise is that you can use MIP files in the E file "materials section", I thought it was just gif. Opens up a whole new world of possibilities.Is there any way to get a MIP back to a GIF so you can make slight changes.Andy

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