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Guest R_Driscoll

Yellow snow and palettes.

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Many people have complained about the Seattle palette over the years. I tried extracting the palette and adjusting it, and I've put some comparison shots below to invite comment. Things to note are the bluer water, less yellow trees, whiter snow and beaches.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38577.jpgOn the rooftop - BEFOREhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38578.jpgOn the rooftop - NEW BLUE HUEhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38579.jpgLake Kachess - BEFOREhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38580.jpgLake Kachess - NEW BLUE HUEI am very interested in comments. I know its hard to judge from a couple of pictures, but if you think this is worthwhile, I suggest that maybe Hans Petter and Jon Point could do some professional palette adjustment using PSP. What I have done doesn't solve everything - you can see that the snow in shadows is still yellowish. Should we try to improve the palette, or "not tamper with perfection"?.RobD

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Judging from the screenshots Lake Kachess looks good with any palette but the yellow snow is a bit too, well yellow :-)If we can make the peak of Mount Rainier white without any adverse effects down at sea level this looks promising.best regards,Hans Petter

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Rob,Bloody brilliant! As a Sydneysider like you, I am well accustomed to a 'blue hue'. Truth is, the mountains around Kachess now remind of our beloved Blue Mountains, west of Sydney!I have also been working on a mod to improve terrain quality at a distance (not terrain textures but actual TERRAIN!). To cut a long story short, it's a simple cfg file mod which allows one to see the Cascades from SEA (like in reality) and also, a clear view of Mt Rainier from Renton! It DOES impact framerates a bit but hey! One could always load less packages... It's a result of my annoyance with mountains suddenly popping up or the horizon 'adjusting itself' continually.1. Go to Renton, page up to 3kft and look at Mt Rainier (if you can see it). Take a screenshot for reference.2. Try this line in your cfg file:opt_terrain_detail 999Obviously, replace the existing line! Now, BEFORE you go trying it, even touching the 'terrain detail' slider in the options screen will reset it to '103' (so don't touch it). 3.Go to Renton, page up to 3kft and look at Mt Rainier NOW ;)As to getting blue without yellow, you can get more 'blue' by either reducing yellow OR reducing red (in a CMYK pallete mixer). If you are using an RGB mixer only, it is harder. Maybe I could try some palette mixing for you to try out (after rebuilding everything TWICE, I am so far behind schedule that I barely have time to finish anything :-( ).Nothin' like a bit of progress :-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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Rob,My dad taught me at a tender age to stay away from yellow snow. :-lolIt must take a awful large sasquach to make that much of it! :-eek(Nice work sir.)

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Rob,Just for interest's sake, snow is rarely ALL white! Sure, with a couple of metres of powder over it, it IS white but, at any time of the year when snow isn't falling, it rapidly goes from a blue-white, through yellow(ish) to brown as the snow melts. Obviously, from the amount of snow in FU3's Seattle area, the images were taken in Spring (if Autumn/Fall there would be lots of red in the trees), which is just when the snow changes colour. To see large streaks of yellow/brown running down mountainsides is therefore quite normal - it's just the groundwater running through the lower layers, carrying soil with it.As an interesting aside, some snow near Mt Kosciusko in Australia turns pink :-eek in Summer! And yes, there IS snow there in Summer - I've snowboarded on it! It's caused by airborne microbes which lie dormant in the snow and come back to life when the temperature rises - so I'm told.:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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RobD,I think your new snow is definatly beter, yep definatly.The lighter yelow at the edge of the lake, I can liv with.Not good not bad just a little diferant is all.I am a bit conserned about the green, it looks a bit les vivid, les vibrant.It even looks a little bit gray.But its dificalt for me to tel cus your useing haze and I never do.Im stil marvaling over the better sky colers you gave us reesently.Its all very exiting.Hans,>promising.

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Well Hans has volunteered to have a look at palettes - he was very quick! Jon, this is amazing about the increased viewing distance - I can't wait to try that tonight. And Jon, Tom, thanks for all the explanations about why snow can be yellow - huskies, sasquats etc. Hmmm. I needed to know that. For the moment, I don't want to explore any deeper into yellow snow.OK, so we can't have scratches. Darn. But still, surely the idea of an enormous glidernut glaring down from above is worth exploring?This thread has been a lot of fun! My apologies though for taking us off topic (but as soon as Tom's not looking, I'll probably do it again).RobD.

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John/Folks,The terrain fudge makes little difference above '999'. I tried it at a couple of higher settings (2048&4096) and, whilst it decreased framerate even more (proving it was doing something), it didn't make any VISIBLE difference. The optimum level is between 499 and 999 I think. Even 499 gives you Mt Rainier from Renton but, if you want the Cascades from SEA, use the '999'.I'm so chuffed, I'm going for a fly...:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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I've played with the resreg for a couple of hours. I found 14 palettes and skewed them all 10% towards blue. I got white windsocks.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38807.jpgThen I went for an 8 percent increase in blue and got brown windsocks.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38808.jpgI took off and looked around. The snow is more white but I may try to up the color saturation since I think it looks a bit bland.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38810.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38811.jpghttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/38812.jpgOK, I've reached the maximum number of attachments. An interesting question is, what are all these palettes for? Maybe each one is meant for a defined range of elevation, meaning that color is supposed to be more skewed towards yellow/red as we approach sea level. If so, it may not be a good idea to skew all levels. We'd have to identify which palette is being used for the higher levels (Mnt Rainier) and skew this one towards blue.best regards,Hans Petter

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Hans-Petter,Great to see some (other) experimentation going on ;)I believe the different palettes have to do with time of day and season. Obviously, with only 256 colours, one couldn't fade from say, midday lighting to night time without a lot of strangeness. So, they use sucessive palettes to do it. Watch the Dash-8 panel whilst holding down the key. Oh! 65k colours? No, FU3 only EVER displays 256 colours per image plane. This is why we see dithering in our 65k cockpits ;)I'm not sure if they are all implemented though. This would be easy to check. Simply replace a lot of colours in one palette with red (255,0,0), another with blue (0,0,255) etc. As you cycle through seasons and times, the palette should become immediately obvious :-eek:-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

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I haven't tried weird colors yet but I upped the saturation by 15%. This produced dull blue windsocks while the terrain stayed about the same.We can certainly make Mount Rainier white but there is a price to pay in terms of less vibrant hues. I may try to increase the red a bit.best regards,Hans Petter

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I agree with Jon that you need to identify WHICH palettes are relevant. I only changed the second one in Resreg, since I thought the first one was for models, not scenery. To increase "vibrancy", is it possible to increase contrast? Also instead of increasing blue, what happens when you decrease red and yellow together?RobD.

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Hans Petter The diferant culers of the wind sak seems to hapen imidiatly after I hav flown in anuther region, ie, (broun), (dul derty blou), (bright blou), (bright red).But the only tims I hav ever seen the whight wind sok is when "for what ever reezen" the3D ACCELERATION DRIVER is terned off in options.I think you will hav to avoid looking at the wind sok, and sum of the add on Fled modelsthat hav been dun in a diferant way to all the rest, and consentrate on the teranecolors only, in order to discuver or understand what palet dus what, and why.glidernut.:-wave

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Jon wrote that the range of palettes was probably used to create the 24 hours cycle of light conditions. Now Rob D says that he thinks that the first palette is for models and Glidernut says that windsocks tend to change when you switch between regions.I think our first focus should be to identify the reason for all these palettes and which one is being used for what. Would it be possible to research this using a hex code viewer? Otherwise it will all be trial and error. I may back up my current resreg tweak and try making that first palette totally red. Then, if some objects turn out red we have a clue and likewise if one time of day suddenly turns red.Hans Petter

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Yes Hans, or even better, (after backing up the original file), make one palette completely red, the other completely green, the other blue and so on; then run the sim and you'll know at once which palette does what! :-) It will be hard to fly then anyway... ;-)Cristian

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