Fsfreeware.com

[Guest andy9164]

I was just having a browse round and came across the site below.http://www.fsfreeware.com/dcd/Flight_Unlimited_III/Look like all our packages and add ons end up here as well.Andy

[Hans_Petter 1]

Yes, they do. I don't mind but it's quite evident that these files have been downloaded from Avsim. I know since I've never uploaded anything to that site. I checked the download link and it's a redirect but at least it doesn't appear to be a redirect to the Avsim library.Hans Petter

[Guest jonpoint]

Yeah, I found out about it because I received some emails about my DC3-G202A upgrade from people who had downloaded from there. I also took the time to contact the site's proprietor and explain a few issues.He seemed to believe that, because I had uploaded it to Avsim as freeware, that he could host it and distribute it. Technically, this is a 'can of worms' and in fact constitutes a breach of a number of laws. For a start, to download from Avsim and offer to others without mentioning Avsim is probably not kosher. To provide a direct link to Avsim (and mention you are doing so) is the polite way to do it. In fact, I think that anything less than a bold 'File originally downloaded from www.avsim.com' on every file would constitute illegality.Secondly, although freeware, the intentions of the author must be respected. After all, the freeware site manager is providing no support whatsoever - all this falls back to the author. As a freeware author and avid user and supporter of Avsim, I choose to only upload my creations through them. It is my way of saying 'thanks' to Avsim. Imagine how I feel when I receive an email from someone who tells me they had to pay to download my 'freeware'! Huh? Doesn't it say 'fsFREEware'? Well, folks, in a sneaky attempt to charge for your (and my) work, this guy deliberately provides almost zero bandwidth for downloads. Every time I have tried to download something from there, I got a 'server busy' error! Of course, the message then goes on to inform me that, to guarantee downloads, I must register and pay an amount of money (AUD$50) for their 'Library Plus' service or AUD$20 for 30 days access.Now, they say they have good intentions, and that the money is used purely upgrades. That would almost be believable except:1. They don't offer any discount to authors. If I create something that they they obtain money from because someone wants to download it then the least they could do is let me download it myself for free, just to ensure it isn't pickled. And yes, I believe they had a pickled file at some stage.2. The free access only lets you access the last 1,000 files uploaded. It doesn't take Einstein to realise that this leaves room for about 13-14 FU3 files! So, prospective users don't get to see much of what they would get for their AUD$50.The day that Ramondo Taburet (there, his 15 seconds of fame...) contacts this forum, offering 100% free membership for all FU3 downloads is the day I'll start thinking of 'that' site as being 'above board'. Until then, I don't need it and couldn't care less if they choose not to host my files. To date, my Horizon livery got 13 downloads from fsfreeware.com but 70 from Avsim ;) ALL feedback from downloaders has come through Avsim too.Disgruntled :-grr

[Guest jonpoint]

Sorry, couldn't resist the opportunity to offer a site rename...:-lolStill disgruntled - but it's lunchtime ;)

[Guest glidernut]

Ye, I second all the abuv.The sad thing about this is the number of doun-lodes at that sight.The number of doun-lodes sergests that ther is a lot of peopl out ther that dont know we exist hear at avsim.And thees peopl are stil mising out on all the help and advice we can offer, not to menshion a masiv librery full of FU3 stuf.glidernut. :-8

[Guest twsimfan]

Andy,I just sent Tom Allensworth a e-mail with a link to this thread. I could be wrong but I think this may well be something he will want to check into.They don't have any of my stuff there... but then my stuff is so old they probably wouldn't be interested. I do remember being rather ticked off when somebody uploaded some of my stuff to flightsim.com... I had only put it on AVSIM. Nothing against flightsim.com but who ever did it had repacked the zips and there were bugs that weren't in my distribution. People were not happy with me because I refused to support it... I just told them to download my original zips from AVSIM. I always tried my best to support what I actually put out.I guess I'm trying to say that I understand your frustration. I hope Tom can let us know if this is even legal.

[Guest jonpoint]

Tom,This is my point exactly. I'm not a whistle-blower normally but this guy has ticked me off over his site, actions and attitude ('what's your problem? I'm doing you a favour anyway...').I have even been told by a user that it would be wise to join 'their' forum to allow contact with users who want help. Well, I refer to Avsim throughout my uploads and post my email address. If 'their' users want support, Avsim is open, 24/7!As far as legality goes, I am bound by MY agreement with Avsim. I don't have any such agreement with anyone else. I quote here from your 'rules for uploading':"Please remember that all files in the Library are available "AS IS", and AVSIM Online will not be responsible for any problems you may have with them. Download, install, and use the files at your own risk. If you detect any general problems with a file related to incompleteness or safety (such as detecting a virus), please feel free to drop the Library Managers a line to let us know of the problem. However, for all other questions about a file, please contact the author of the file rather than us."So, in uploading, I have accepted that Avsim users who may download my work are entitled to contact me regarding any issues they may have. That's fine by me. Problem is, I didn't upload to this other site but by inference, their users believe they are entitled to support from me. My standard reply is (and has always been) 'post it in the Avsim FU3 forum'. I'm not trying to be obstructive here. I just cannot afford to stretch myself that thin to support 2 flightsim sites and, if I am driven too choose one (as is often hinted from the 'other side'), it's Avsim anyway.But you knew that ;):-waveJon Point*************************(effyouthree@hotmail.com)*************************

[Guest andy9164]

I agree with all thats been said. I do not object in theory, but as Jon has pointed out, I uploaded it to Avsim, so any problems / questions will get answered through the Avsim forum, where there any many great people who will respond and help.Tom, one thing I did notice (OK I downloaded my Lydd file from FSfreeware just to see) there is no Avsim.diz file in there. Do they take it out?Maybe in future uploads I will put a statement in there that it can only be downloaded from Avsim, therefore if it appears anywhere else they would be in breach of my license.Andy

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Tom and crew,First, Tom, thanks for the email and the headsup on this. Yes, we have been aware of this guy for some time. Here it is in a nutshell...If the EULA's that you enclose with your files specifically state that money can not be charged for them, then this guy clearly is and is in violation of your EULA. Otherwise, he can do as he pleases, and that includes "poaching" the files from here or anywhere else and putting them on his server for redistribution - unless you specifically state otherwise. It is up to the author to be very specific about how / where etc, their files can be used, distributed and so on. If you are not specific, then be prepared for this kind of stuff.Having said that, we at AVSIM are looking at ways of taking care of this individual's access to the file library to prevent this kind of thing from here.

[Guest twsimfan]

Tom,Thanks for the information and good luck whipping this jerk.

[Guest Ansgar]

Hello Tom and ehh Tom, ;-)as one of the developers here I would give my comment to that also:We produce "Freeware" here, and therefor I have no bigger problem if "they" load our stuff also to other servers.But my main intention is also to hold our fans here in the FU3 forum. We found a very worm, friendly and save place here and that should it be also in future! So if avsim has no bigger problems by loosing members and traffic here - I don

[Guest twsimfan]

Ansgar,The problem is that this guy is trying to get people to spend money for what we (loose "we"... I haven't uploaded anything in years) uploaded to AVSIM for people to access freely. Look at his pitch:- Dear Fsfreeware Friends - Fsfreeware Library System Has been updated in order to Provide enough Resources in Terms of Income to keep front of an ever Increasing Demand from Fsfreeware servers. - You have two Options to Access the Database - - Option 1 - Offers Free Downloads for all at no cost whatsoever - from the Free Access to All File Library - you have to navigate trough Banners - which are the main Income Resources in order to keep Fsfreeware Servers Online - This is a Completely Free Service. The Free Library host the latest 1000 uploads only.Option 2 - Library Plus Service - Is a Membership Version of the Fsfreeware File Library - with top Downloads Speed available on the Web - Absolutely No Banners or any kind of Adds - absolutely Clean for Fast and Rapid Pages Load and Rapid downloads as nobody else offer on the web. To Join this Unique Service - a One Year Subscription Cost US$ 24.99 - - you also can Test the System with a Trial Membership for 30 Days at US 9.99 - - This Service is Designed for those who can not Stand Ads - Banners - and enjoy Fast and Clean Browsing along with High Speed transfers and a Wider selection of downloads - No Transfers Limits apply to this Service - - INSTANT ACTIVATION! - - Income Generated is devoted to the Maintenance - Servers Payments and Expansion of Fsfreeware - thanks for your Support!In other words this jerk is trying to get people to pay money to him for your hard work.I strongly suggest that all contributors to the library start using a statement such as Tom Allensworth mentioned. Something about how NOBODY is authorized to charge money for your wares. You can say that it may not be distributed beyond the AVSIM Library or if you prefer you might say that it can be distributed freely but not for profit. Such is my opinion.

[Christopher Low 5,359]

Tom,I am pretty sure that the text file in my Seattle 2004 and SanFran 2004 packs specifically stated that they were intended for the AVSIM FU3 file library ONLY. I am also certain that these two packs are available on the FSFREEWARE site, since a user told me that he downloaded Seattle 2004 from this site after I had removed it from here !I have considered contacting this guy regarding this. If it was simply a matter of ONLY these two packs, then I would be inclined to ignore it, and simply get on with my life. However, the problem here is that I am well aware that he has redistributed EVERYTHING that I have done. That means users of FSFREEWARE may well be able to download several different versions of the same airfield upgrades and scenery packages, which could potentially cause all kinds of problems. Whenever I upload a new pack to AVSIM, I always get the library managers to remove the old versions first.Of course, I'm not perfect. I did forget the obvious situation where existing users would be downloading my latest packs, and then trying to install them over a previous version. That was pointed out to me by a fellow forum member, and he was absolutely correct. Still, that is a completely separate issue. Like Jon, I don't want anyone from the FSFreeware site to start "banging on my door" because they are having problems with older files that really shouldn't exist any more. I am more than happy to help anyone who has downloaded anything from the AVSIM FU3 file library....and also installed stuff from the latest PC Pilot CD :-)Anyway, I am still on holiday in Scotland at the moment, so I will have another look at this thread when I return at the weekend.Bye for now....and start checking hourly rates for lawyers :-lolChris Low.

[Guest twsimfan]

Chris,"I am pretty sure that the text file in my Seattle 2004 and SanFran 2004 packs specifically stated that they were intended for the AVSIM FU3 file library ONLY. I am also certain that these two packs are available on the FSFREEWARE site"I suggest you present that information directly to Tom Allensworth:tom@avsim.com

[Guest Ansgar]

Dear Tom,First I didn