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Guest glidernut

Help, In Anim8or, or Studio MAX.

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Im working on seaguls and other birds as flyabls. But at my rate of progres we will not see one working for 10 yers yet, so dont holed your breth.My first problem:This seagul is parked on the ground with the brakes on, but its too high off the ground!1) In Anim8or, or Studio MAX how do I lower the small cube vhot? Bairing in mined that this model dus not hav one, "well not that I can see anyway".Simply Lowering the model, dus not lower the models point of rotation or vhot.I want to lower this model and its point of rotation as well, but how?2) How do I get the BSP.exe to use its cfg file?It seems to me that the wings of a bird could be made to flap up and douwn useing an axil at the rootof each wing.And if the 2 axils used at the root of the wings was the same 2 axils that is normaly used for the flaps on an ordinary aircraft, then the up and down stroke of the birds wings would have its owne 2 wav files.The same as the flaps on an aicraft has its 2 wav files, 1 for going up and 1 for going douwn.In this way, the flaping sound of a bird could be made to sound realistik. However, the only way the wings could be made to flap up and douwn continualy, and at a rate relativto the throtel would be to only fly the bird in a chanange, ie, with a script.Steffen Schiedek is about the only man that can tel us if its doabl?What do you think Steffen? Is it doabl?Also, to get the wings to flap realistikly, the up stroke of a wing beet needs to have an axil harf way along each wing! But this meens having an axil on an axil, and the only exampl of an axil on an axil that I hav seen in FU3 is on the ws_00.bin wind sock. when I imported the wind sock into the 3D Models part of a res file useing ResViewer, to use thewind sock as a flyabl model it bicums clear that the wind sock has at leest 1 axil on anuther.See flyabl wind sock with shadow. (only flyabls hav shadows).The 2 axils on the wind sock just hapen to corispond with the lowering of the undercarige on anordinery aicraft. In other words, when flying the wind sock, on presing 'g' the wind sock rotatesand lowers its flag at the same time.On an aicraft thees 2 axils are separat, ie, one for each wheal.But on the wind sock one axil is on the other, ie, one rotats the wind sock and the other lowersthe flag whyil being rotated.So I think it is posibl to have an axil on an axil, and thus, realistik flaping wings, BUT HOUW WAS IT DUN?glidernut.

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Hi Glidernut,in order to get a flying (or flyable) bird that flaps its wings in dependence of throttle, I think you'll have to build it as a plane (with a very slowly turning prop (wings) maybe?).What a challenge could do would be:Let a 3D bird model (wings up) fly between two points and give it a sound. Let the next 3D model (wings down) fly between the next two points with a different sound, then again bird model 1 between the next point. That way, you'll end up with the wings not moving but switching continuosly. If it is possible to have a 3D model that automatically moves the wings - that would be great.In order to make the flapping of the wings throttle dependant: It can be done to read the throttle value with a challenge. The solution for faster flapping would then be to let the bird fly faster between the points - BUT the speed between two points has to be initialized before starting the challenge: We would need predefined points between the bird flies with wings up and down, the models with wings up and down and then 10 birds would be integrated in the challenge (a slow 10% throttle bird with wings up and down, a faster 20% bird, ...). They all fly with different speeds between the points but only the bird of the current throttle value is shown. So this will work for sure - each bird can have two different sounds. It will still be no moving wings - before we should check whether building it as a real plane might not be an option.Writing the script (if the plane solution doesn't work) is no problem. Tell me when it is truly needed.Blue Skies, Steffen

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Steffen,Last week I tryed swoping the wheels douwn model of the stemme with the wings douwn modelof a seagul, and in the same res file I also swoped the wheels up model of the stemmewith the wings up model of a seagul.The resalt: Every time the "g" key was presed the other of the 2 seagul models was showen."g" up "g" nouwn "g" up "g" nouwn and so on and so on, (flaping wings) it works, see snaps.Unfortchunatly a res file only has 2 models that can be swiched in this way, and weneed at leest 10 for lealistk flaping, 30 would be beter. And unfortchunatly I dont know how to create extra swichabl models in a res file.So althow the abuv method works, I think it would be beter "if it works" to have moovingwings, ie, axils at the roots of the wings that are asyined as flaps.glidernut.:-wave

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Dear John,Height from ground is determined by two things:* The 'zero' point in the 3D model (also center of gravity).* Settings in the flight model file.There are two settings in the flight model that determine height above ground:* The 'model offset' near the front of the file. This can be used to move the 3D model relative to the center of gravity. To raise it, use NEGATIVE numbers for 'Z', to lower it, use positive numbers.* The 'gear height' setting which you'll find in the gear sections. If you have deleted them ('cause it has no gear...), just use the offset but it may not register landings ("Peregrine Falcon, please stop flapping about the taxiways...").Strange combinations of these settings result in no landings being recorded but, as we currently have no strips in trees, it's probably no problem at all ;) Might affect Pelicans though :-lolAs to the flapping wings, do you think I wouldn't be using wing bending in the gliders if I could flex them? Props only go around in circles. You could probably do a convincing humming bird(!) but that's about it. Maybe, you could model them as flaps and create a challenge that repeatedly extends and withdraws the flaps? Just set flap operation time (in the flight model) to 0.2sec with about 60 degrees movement, set the flaps (wings) to the 'up' position and also set the number of flap positions (again, front of flight model) to:2 0 60and see what happens. You'll only need one model for this but use two - one with legs down, one up (you can still use the 'g' switch to pull up the legs after takeoff :-lol ). Of course, this doesn't 'fly' - you'll need a silent engine running to keep you airborne. Replace the two flap sounds with apprpriate 'wing' sounds and it may work ;)As to the challenge, I'm having real problems with them right now so speak to the expert (Steffen).PS I have a couple of flock models if you don't wish to fly alone!:-wave******************* Jonathan Point *******************

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This is totally amazing. I can't wait to get my hands on this, ahh, bird. (well what do you call a plane which is a bird?). I had a dream(sorry, try again in basso profundo) - "I have a dream" (rolling echo) since about 10 years ago to model a seagull, but never had the know how. I can't believe its happening.I forgot to say a long time ago how I guessed - you had a screenshot of something else, with your directory in the background. There was a seagull file in your directory.I'm off to look up the technical data on these birds. Stall speed, flap settings (oh yes that's right, up and down), undercarriage, range per sandwich etc. Wow!!!! I may even start to enjoy fishing ...RobD

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Hi there,that's sort of what I meant: If the bird is a flyable plane with the flapping wings being the flaps, operating the flaps (speed depending on current throttle value) is as easy as it gets. Takes about 5 minutes to create that challenge script...Blue Skies, Steffen

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Interesting!I think the best use of the bird model would be to set it up as an AI model. Then, if you choose a species that glides well (as seagulls) we might get a bird that glides by and disappears. Then, if the path is descending it might look quite convincing even with no wings flapping. Imagine a flock of seagulls in slightly different configurations making a low pass, turning and disappearing. The AI path might be set to go below ground level and reappear behind a mountain to do a new descending glide where we can see them.A lone eagle might soar in wide lazy circles on the seaward side of a steep mountain. Again, no flapping required.Hans Petter

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Hans Petter,Good thinking. on the other hand birds are very small compaierd to aircraft so we would hardly ever see em.RobD, it wil only be 'range per sandwich!' if it looks lif like, if not then I mightdo it as a man made bird machine. Iv got sum thorts of how to do inter loking rotateing cogs in the cocpit vews, like in a clok, sort of steem pouwred or ruber band pouwered, a bit likeyour PC, or is your PC pree wor gas operated?Anyway, when Chirs low starts bosting about having the bigest one on the blok, just remember"its not the size that counts, its what you do with it that maters". Steffen, Right then Steffen, if and when I get a model redy, then we go full steem ahed.Its good to know you are there when needed. Jon,Yes your right, its the frigate bird.But I am sory to say that this friging frigate is stil too high off the ground cus I carnt figer out how to get the flight model out of a *.res file ?So how do I get the flight model out?I have been folowing thees instructions that you gave to sumone els about a yer ago,---------------------------------------------------------------------------------To get out, alter, and put back the flight dynamics of the mooney1."-Open a DOS box and type -Then It should say '9 resources written' etc.-Open the Mooney again in Resviewer (you are using a backup?) and hit 'import-flight model'. -Navigate to your 'mooney1.res' file and click on it.-Go flying...."Sorry to lead you astray. Also, make sure that ALL the '.h' files are in the same folder as your flight model file before attempting conversion. This last one had me confused for about 6 months PS Don't edit the '.h' files! TERRIBLE things will happen Jon Point*************************-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------But I think the abuv instructions are not compleet or cleaer inuf for me.Trying your moone1 exampl abuv, I get Number of resources written: 0I get the same resalt when substituting moone1 with other aircraft names,the resalt is always the same ie, Number of resources written: 0See snap 1 to see the tools used and files generated by the tools.Files generated.The moone1.seg file seems to be sum sort of intermeedeat file!The moone1.h only has 4 lines in it and no numbers to tdit!The moone1.res file can not be opend with Gideon,s ResViewer, it throws a fit.So having generated thees files, what do I do with them? Sould I be using Gideon,s ResViewer to get sumthing out of a res file in PLEPILE first?PS, I also have a tool named planeunlimited.exe, is this used to edit the flight model?If it is then I hav a broblem with it!This program refuses to open a res file! be it a proper res file from PLEPILE or agenerated res file created by the DOS tool "restool.exe"!The skreen freezes and the only way to un freez it is to Ctrl Alt Del and end task.See snap 2,glidernut. needing help and advice.

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John,Yes, 'Planeunlimited' is the go! I need to make a point that there are 2 resfiles here - the aircraft resfile and the flight model 'resfile' that you import back into Resviewer.1. Fire-up Resviewer and open your aircraft/bird/flying dragon resfile.2. Go right to the last few files and look for resource #2130. It's file 140 in the Baron/Windhawk.3. Click on 'export-multiple' and select all files from #2130 to the end. Export them to a temp folder. I actually use the folder that i keep 'planeunlimited.exe' in ;)4. Start 'Planeunlimited', navigate to where you exported the files to, look for #2130 and open it. You won't see anything happen - that's OK!5. Click 'save as' and give it a name, like 'seagull.txt' (watch the 8+3 filename) and save.6. Now, look for the textfile and open it. It should be >20k. Sometimes, especially if you try to edit an already-edited file, it doesn't work :-( In this case, the file length is about 3k, so it's obvious.Tips:* As above, re-edited files don't always (never for me...) work so ALWAYS 'save as' with a new name before editing. The Twin Otter started as 'd6a.txt' and is now up to 'd6zh.txt' :-eek* After you have edited and saved it, refer to my previous stripres/restool instructions. * Upon running restool.exe, it should report 'number of resources written: 9'Open Resviewer, open the aircraft/bird/dragon resfile then click 'import - flight model' and you're away ;)BTW, I'm glad FU3 doesn't model bird poo :-lol:-wave******************* Jonathan Point *******************

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John,There is a little more to getting the wings flapping ;)I need to check axle names for you to get this right (might as well use the default aircraft axle numbers to make it easy). The entire tail should be hinged (left and right) for the rudder and the actual tail 'feathers' should be hinged (up and down) for the elevator. My suggestion is to use something fairly light to start with. I can supply the original L-13 flight model if that helps. The 'trick' with the wings is that what you see doesn't have to relate (too much) to the flight model EXCEPT the flaps er, sorry - wings. To avoid making it unflyable, I suggest you make the flap angle about 60 degrees but make it SMALL - then it has little effect on flying (when down, the bird will rise a bit which is what you want). You could even have an intermediate position (-30 degress?) for gliding!I just have to check that we can get the right angles working for everything first. Got an efile of the proposed bird?BTW (everyone), I have created a flock of Canada geese and one of some Pelicans to gauge effect. It's not bad I reckon but is a large moving model. I have them starting from the water at Renton and flying East, straight across the flight path (where else?). Only problem is, you can strike them in an ultralight and still not crash! An adult goose is the equivalent of hitting about 5-6 tonnes and should destroy small aircraft. Therefore, I think we need Steffen's expertise here to get them into a challenge so they could really ruin your day ;) I also have tried a circling eagle above Ranger (~250ft) and you can only see it when lining-up for takeoff but it adds a certain touch. Again, a challenge could make it appear ONLY when one is in the vicinity (reduces overheads) and make it capable of inflicting damage.:-wave******************* Jonathan Point *******************

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Hi John.I wish there was a way I could help you, I enjoy them moving things.I could have a blast with some moving birds.If you ever get the Bird working, It would also be cool to have jumping whales or fish in FU3. I'll help you if I can because it's pretty cool to see things like this within our games, Makes it look like the real dealhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67228.jpgWhen them whales jump in that other bad game it makes me really want to go fishing, This Pic is the real deal, me holding a little bitty fish I caught so I could use it for Bait :-lolhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67234.jpgIf you'd like the story of the biggest one or the one that got away just ask.Have Fun :-vuurAllan and PuppyBush Flying Unlimitedhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Just for bait, eh? Hmmm.I like the jumping whale. Didn't know they could do that.RobD.

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Hi Rob.Just for bait,eh?hmmm.Yes I've caught bigger fish then that one, Here's a fish report from Cabo San Lucas.http://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67348.jpgIt's a lot of fun to go for the big onehttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67347.jpgIt's also great stuff to see Big Fish and whales jumping while I'm flyinghttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67349.jpgKinda makes it like the real thinghttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67350.jpgBut as much as I like to fish, You know I'm going to load that big minnow, even if my Plane has a proplem staying afloat :-lolhttp://forums.avsim.com/user_files/67353.jpgHave Fun :-vuurAllan and PuppyBush Flying Unlimitedhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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Allan,2 hours and 10 minutes to release? Did you round-up everyone else's lines bringing it in :-lolOr, did they mean 2 hours and 10 minutes landing it? In the 'old days' (around here), you hadn't 'landed it' until it was in the boat. Nowadays (with tag 'n' release), even bringing it alongside the boat is considered a landing (especially if it's already tagged). Bleedin' things just keep coming back - sure the hook hurts them but it's a free feed ;)Longest I ever persevered with a smaller fish was 30 minutes to land a 3.5kg (~8lb) jewfish on 2lb line. I don't know who was more tired :-doh:-wave******************* Jonathan Point *******************

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Allan, thats the bigest minnow I ever sor!Thanks Jonathan, that info is just what I wanted.Hear,s the E file, glidernut.

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Jonathan.They meant landing it, It took me that long to get the fish wore out,I'm not sure if the fish was as tired as me :-lol. Ever place I've been deep sea fishing so far, to have a legal catch we only need to hold the leader for a moment. They didn't tag my stripper. just turned it loose at my request. It was app 3.3 meters long or about 11 feet.I tried to make them release that sail from the other pic. But they told me it was so tired from our fight that if they released it the sharks would kill it. We were in shark infested waters between Aruba and the northern coast of South AmericaGlidernut.Yes that is a big Minnow "Aye"Have Fun :-vuurAllan and PuppyBush Flying Unlimitedhttp://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif

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