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Guest Seadog

Survey of joystick settings

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I have a bunch of questions, and think they are best handled by breaking them down into individual threads. A few months back, Rob advised I should do just that with regard to scenery matters, and I'll turn to that next. First, though, I'd like to address the topic of setting controller (joystick) sensitivity and null (dead) zones for General Aviation aircraft in FU3. I'm pretty tired of the results of not knowing how to set these things, and I've read far and wide on the topic without a net increase in wisdom. Only helicopter sims have a published consensus about these settings: sensitivity all axes 100%, null zone all axes 0%.I think conventional wisdom may be that there is no consensus, no single theory of how such things should be set up in the sim or in CH Control Manager if you use that. If so, there's no hard proof of that. The only way to know if there is a consensus is to gather the facts and see where they lead. Since the FU3 options for controllers offer only two adjustments, joystick sensitivity and joystick dead zone, this can be an easy set of questions to answer. Using CH Control Manager multiplies the possibilities. I am of the belief that, if one uses an external program such as CH Control Manager, then joystick sensitivity should be 100% in FU3 options and dead zone should be 0%, but this survey is a good way to check that assumption. To keep the data consistent, I would appreciate it if you, too, would speak in terms of percentages, since sensitivity and dead zone adjustment slider scales have no indicated units of measurement, generally speaking.Please share with me, and with each other, what your settings are for the controllers you use. I doubt operating system (Windows version) much matters, but that would be good data to collect also. If you would be so kind as to share this information, it would be most useful for making comparisons and drawing conclusions to reply in the following format:1. Windows Operating System version2. X-Y and Throttle axes controller brand, type and type of connection3. Z axis (rudder) controller brand, type and type of connection4. Percentage settings you use on FU3 controller options screen for joystick sensitivity and dead zone5. If you also use an add on program, such as CH Control Manager, please name it and identify the percentages of sensitivity and dead zone for each axis and slider you control with that program.6. If you use such an external program, do you also adjust the responsivity curves and in what wayThat's all. Let's see where the data lead us. And thank you.-Seadog

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-Seadog The sensitivity raerther dipends on what aircraft you pefer to fly, and howmuch sensitivity you can cope with.I set all my axes to maximum sensitivity and no dead zones.To me, having a dead zone is like having a loos worn out linkage, I hate it.If my joystik had a ded zone, I would get me a new joystik. Cum to think of it I did.I dont understand the perps of having a dead zones at all.Unles its to imitate an old worn out aircraft.Can you imagen having a dead zones on a stering wheal of a car,,,,,,,,,,,,slither,,kiling,,it,,,,,,,,,,,how,,bilt,,this.Having had one joysticks where out on me with dead zones geting biger and biger.And being disgusted about joystik manufacters in jenaral only manageing toget 4 buterns and a hat swich on the joystick it self, when a mobile phonemanufacter manages to put 4 times that number of buterns on a phone that is oftern smaller than a joystick,I ste about geting the most expensiv joystick I could find.I now use a Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar joystick in my right hand and Thrustmaster Hotas Cougar controler in my left, and both of them hav mor buterns hat swiches and axes than I know what to do with.Iv just counted them, 48.And Simped-vario hoot pedls.One of the most important things I am consernd about when it cums to joysticksis how strong the self centering is.Iv taken the self centering spring out of my joystick and aranged it so thatit can be mooved very very easaly, in fact I can moov it with a fether.Not only that but it stays presisely where ever I leev it.glidernut

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Awl vere yusful nfurmashun. Wun voght fur a hunnert pacent tuchy and zip for ded.-CdawgApologies, John :-xxrotflmao

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Seadog,My approach may be somewhat different to others but here goes!- I run both Win2K and 98SE and use the same settings in both.- I use an old CH 'Virtual Pilot' yoke (analog), plugged into the gameport in both cases (same yoke, just move it between PCs).- I have a home-constructed (don't laugh) rudder pedal set, based on an old Sidewinder USB stick pulled apart. This gives me rudder and toe brakes. I don't currently use the other switches and pot but at one point used the spare pot for pitch and the buttons for views (F1/F2/F3 etc).- I use about 60% for sensitivity with a small deadzone - in reality, any deadzone in your controls means slack in control cables and that's not something I'd be happy flying with!- I use no add-on software for the yoke but I use the MS Sidewinder software to allow me to allocate things on the pedals.I arrived at the settings I have based on the ability of the yoke and pedals to achieve 100% deflection just before the stop. THIS IS THE SINGLE IMPORTANT FACTOR. There is no point reaching 100% rudder with only 50% movement. In real aircraft (yes, I'm a student...), the stops are very apparent - especially with rudder control on the ground and even in flight, you'd probably (not) be surprised how much control movement is used. On final approach on a warm, 'thermally' day, I've used 70-80% aileron movement just to keep the Warrior level before landing. I think I've hit the stops a few times but mostly only when trying too hard (i.e. too fast for the plane to respond). In FU3, all aircraft hit the stops at the same time (i.e. regardless of actual deflection) which makes it fairly easy. Bear in mind that all aircraft respond differently and that 'full bank' on the DC3 has less initial effect than it would with the GeeBee ;)I will review my settings though to see if there's something special about it but I don't think so. I find that many USB yokes are waaaaay too sensitive out of the box. My neighbour's CH Pro USB has me diving and climbing all over the place but he likes it that way :-roll. I also must confess that once airborne, especially in larger aircraft (but also in real planes) I fly mostly on 'trims' because it is the sensible thing to do. So, set yourself in a stable climb then adjust the yoke trim (so that's what they're for...) so that the yoke comes back to center. When approaching level flight, ignore the yoke and just adjust the trim back to level flight. One can do the same thing for crosswinds. Instead of kicking the rudder all over the place, just edge-up the trim (keyboard in this case 'coz my 'wooden wonder' pedals have no inbuilt trim) until you're level again. In reality, you bank slightly into the wind for straight flight as a level heading will have you gradually drift downwind.Sorry. My 'blither valve' just opened and it took me 3 paragraphs to close it :-waveRegards,**************Jonathan Point**************"I'd rather be down here wishing I was up there than up there wishing I was down here"

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Thank you. This is precisely the type of information and amount of detail I'm seeking. It's very helpful, especially, as I use the USB gear, to hear your comparison of the analogue and USB controls.While I'm clearly interested in helping myself, I'm also interested in helping others, and your detailed contribution is greatly appreciated. I hope others will join you and Glidernut in providing their equally insightful observations.-Seadog

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Based on the information provided so far, I have some really interesting preliminary conclusions about these settings in FU3. But I still need more data from more of you, please.:-bigangel First, the null or dead zone controls exactly what it says it controls. It makes dead a certain portion of the travel of the controller, meaning that the initial portions of movement of the controller have no effect whatsoever. All of the possible effect is compressed or concentrated in the remaining portion of movement of the controller axis. Thousands cheered on hearing this stunning news.:-lol Second, Sensitivity is mis-named. What the sensitivity slider actually controls is the extent of the arc through which each of the three axial control surfaces moves. Whatever the range of movement might be at a setting of zero sensitivity, it is approximately doubled at a setting of 100% sensitivity. That is the primary effect of changing the sensitivity slider, controlling the number of degrees of arc through which you can move a control surface.If you set sensitivity at zero, you can not move the control surface through its full range of movement. Using the helpful notion Jon mentioned, it will not move from one stop to the other stop. Setting it at 100% gives you as much motion as the sim will permit. One hopes that would be full to both the stops. At 100%, a given amount of movement of your controller therefore produces twice as many degrees of arc movement in the control surface as you would get at zero sensitivity, so it is twice as sensitive per unit of movement of the controller. But the real effect is to control the degrees of arc movement of the control surface. Sensitivity is merely the by-product of that increased axial rotation.Of interest, sensitivity is also heightened by setting the dead zone at 100%, because all possible movement occurs over a slight amount of controller movement, albeit at the extremes of travel of the controller. I think both Jon and Glidernut are right to disparage the dead zone concept. It appears to be mostly a workaround for a poorly performing controller.I tested this by using Quick Flight to put a plane on the ground (Mooney and Trainer), and observing motion of the control surfaces with the F5, F6 and F8 views, which you can easily do for yourself. Of the two aircraft I used, the effects are perhaps more clearly visible when viewing the Trainer than the Mooney, but it's quite clear in both cases. I varied both sensitivity and dead zone from 0% to 100% in all four possible combinations of those extremes for both aircraft. Try it with the Trainer. You'll be amazed at what you see.:-hah These initial findings relate simply to what the sliders do to a static plane, not necessarily to where they should be set for actual flight, so I really need more input from the rest of you.-Seadog

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