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hey Tom, are we allowed to discuss anything anymore?

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Be real nice if we had permission to have a thread where we can actually act like adults and have a debate about the seeming hypersensitivity of you and the mods lately.It's becoming a real waste of time to even respond because half the threads disappear making any effort useless.And don't give me that crap about threads deleted or locked only if there's abuse of the rules...if you're going to claim that, repost your rules, because there are threads deleted that absolutely do not have a single personal insult in them or are in any way anything other than an actual heated debate. It's like it's preschool, and we're being protected via the too-oft paternalistic attitude of some mods.It's disgusting that in a free society the censorship on here has gotten so out of hand.Last thread deleted was a debate in the PIC forum wherein I defended the right of a newbie to post newbie questions even if they are buried down in the archives.If this right does not belong to your users, then your forums are a joke for they are merely lag-time chatrooms for high-post total users and not at ALL forums for the topics for which they are named.I just think it ridiculous that we cannot have an adult debate, a disagreement, a rational argument with, whoa, get this crime -- REAL EMOTIONS.What's the point? What exactly are your running here? What are the mods criteria as set out by you?Perhaps if it were more clear and not the same old excuses about how incredibly scientifically-defying psychic you all are knowing that "in the future" a thread will become a flame war --- #####, this was such an awesome place a couple of years ago, why the hyper-censorship?Because you delete anything that challenges or defends, you leave the newbies reading only the same old dismissive, superiority-toned posts by the high post-count people and the symptom of this disease is so obvious if you'd read your own forums more carefully.Do you not see the trepidation in the newbie posts? Can you not pick up on the timidity with which new users ask questions, as if they're standing five feet back from their monitors waiting for the anti-newbie comments to fly?The way it's been around here lately, I feel like you're making the following statements:1. You are not allowed to be frusterated on a forum2. You are not allowed to be angry.3. You are not allowed to argue or debate.4. Forums are the property of old-timers and should not be interupted.5. Any and all discussions about what is an appropriate topic, what is a fair amount of censorship, are to be censored.Now, clearly I'm mad and engaging in a *slight* amound of hyperbole here, but I'm desparately trying to get a point across.Do any other users feel the Avsim forums are dangerously close to just not being fun anymore?Perhaps there's only three or four of us who feel this way -- if so, great, democracy rocks.If not, should the forum "rules" not reflect the needs/opinions of it's users within reasonable limits?Please, please clarify what these limits are, and please make sure the mods are following your examples and guidelines.Just seems so insane that I can't even encourage a newbie to post because by doing so, I'm arguing against the responses of those who would rather keep the forum as a clique-based hang out.DONE MY RANT...hope you answer and let other's chime in if they think it's gone too far as well.you've been so good giving us space/topics as in the BFU expansion and so much else.it would be sad if such generosity didn't extend to the actual content of those forums as well.cheers,michaelEDIT: trying to edit out some of my hostility ;)I don't forget how hard it is to be a mod or your job, Tom, just feel like there's no place left in the world where one can be an adult without someone "protecting" the babies.

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Can somebody Remove this ????????? :) Anniette xxxxxxxxxxx

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LOL, laughing at my attitude now!My much more polite rephrased request:Tom, would you please clarify what the rules are, under what guidelines are your mods to act, and then allow a democratic debate as to how the rest of us feel about those rules thus hopefully ending in a compromise or adjustment?That'd be great...I'm only mad because of the length of wasted time typing responses that are deleted. Don't think I'm the only one hear caught be surprise when threads are locked or deleted.With other's posting of their leaving over this very issue, I think it's time we all talked about what rules are reasonable.Thanks...I'm going to call my mom now and apologize to her for forgetting her lesson that if you want something, you should first try achieving it with politeness and respect :Dmichael

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How about a forum just for the things you suggest?

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You have to go over there for that, but threads get locked there too.See the O/M forum.

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> Don't think >I'm the only one hear caught be surprise when threads are >locked or deleted. >You're certainly NOT the only one!L.Adamson

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but why not a forum for "locked" threads?? Presumably the problem is the space within a forum that the debates take up. The problem i sure hope is not merely one of bandwidth, as that seems a little unfair considering the off-topic conversations which are allowed and the bandwidth some of the Sigs must take (I'm not talking about you, Scott :D).why not give up the deleting and simply move threads out of the "public" view to another forum thereby allowing the discussions to continue for those who wish it, and within that forum, others could weigh in with their thoughts about whether it should have even been moved?seems fair and democratic to me, still leaves other forums free of long "argumentative" threads without simply hacking off our occasionally well-thought out debates.michael

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whew!nice to know that not only is my proverbial butt not hanging out alone here, but actually hanging out with such distinguished company!!;)michael

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yeah, thanks for bothering to read...the point is you guys invoke the "certain limits" clause an awful lot compared to the amount of effort you spend defining it.is it a flux thing? is it not solid and definable, thus making it difficult for anyone to explain their actions?and the real point is, why exactly do the very users themselves not seem to have any input on what the "certain limits" are??btw...is there not a way to just delete a specific post and not the entire thread? Seems you guys allow single users to wreck entire, time-invested threads over one stupid post.michaelhere I sit giggling at the idea that every thread that's been deleted could even remotely be justified under any of the published rules.

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Yea, half the time it would be easier to lock the user then the thread, sometimes more effective too ... But then again, we'd certainly decline in memmbership here, as everyone has their "I wanna kill you all" days and lets the odd post rip that they would never type normally ;-)RayPS: I suggest you read the policies of AVSim, there is always that free speech crap floating around in the odd thread, yet the policy is QUITE clear on this "free speech" :-lol

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I guess your very first sentence in this thread probably is the very reason threads get locked/removed, at both sites."Be real nice if we had permission to have a thread where we can actually act like adults and have a debate about the seeming hypersensitivity of you and the mods lately".They may start out in an adult manner, and then deterioriate from there. Also, IMO, the mods at either site, do not need to justify their actions. If it is determined that something has been posted that should not have been, they should deal with it in whatever manner they deem appropriate. This may mean to lock the thread, delete it entirely, delete certain posts, and yes, even notify the poster as to why the action was taken. (This does happen, but is not necessary).Just my dollars' worth, and now, I'm off to something worthwhile.Darrell

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Man is this getting old....Ok, everyone look at the title next to Tom's name and you'll see the word "publisher". You'll also see others with the word "editor" attached to their names. Now lets assume this is your local newspaper instead of Avsim. If a writer puts something in an article that the publisher doesn't think is appropriate for his/her newspaper they remove it. If someone write's a letter-to-the-editor that the publisher deems as inappropriate, it isn't printed. The editors are given this same authority on behalf of the publisher. Noone's freedom of speech is violated. It's their job. It's called responsibility. How can they get away with this? They own it. It doesn't belong to the public. Anyone that doesn't agree with their policies has the freedom to publish their own newspaper (or website in this case). Then they can make the rules. And by the way, you can read your local newspaper from cover to cover and you won't find any formal statement of what the "rules" are. The rules are made at the publisher's sole discretion. That's why he/she's the publisher.As to Tom's role as publisher here, I think he's shown more restraint than I would. Far too many threads here are degraded by immature, idiotic behavior, that detracts from this webites purpose. Name calling, temper tantrums, it goes on and on. Police your own behaviour and then Tom won't have to.Now, can we get back to talking about.....what's the word I'm looking for....oh yes, now I remember....AVIATION.Mike Stone (aka Kiss a** premadona wannabe)

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I don't expect an essay with every deleted topic. I have read the rules. Perhaps next time I will save my venting and post my own save of the actual thread, thereby enabling myself to more properly challenge you as to why, in the face of the content I will repost, you could possibly defend all the deletions.It's not the one's that break the rules that upset me; it's the one's that seem to be deleted in fear of them someday breaking the rules.i think deleting on that basis is just weak and lazy.michael(and again, the point which will obviously get lost here is why we, the people without whom there is absolutely no Avsim, do not have input vis a vis these "rules")

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