Range of Over-water Radio Stations???

[Guest klucznik]

Hi, I just finished a very successful RCv3 trip from KEWR, NJ to EDDF, Frankfurt and all went extremely well. Just one question. It seemed I had the same ATC controller, I think it was Monctoon but not sure of the spelling, from Newfoundland to the middle of England when I was switched over to London. I don't think this one controller has the range for this distance. I also always thought it was Gander Oceanic when leaving Newfoundland and then switched over to Shanwick around mid-Atlantic. Can anyone correct me or state where I may be wrong? Otherwise than that the trip was a resounding success.Thanks

[Guest klucznik]

Hello again, My final FIX on the North American side was YYT which is TORBAY, Newfoundland and the European side FIX was DOLIP. I have listened to GANDER quite often on my amateur radio receiver and know, from experience, that the flight-crew communicates, in that area, with GANDER. Unfortunately I hear the SHANWICK side from my dwelling but very infrequently. Nevertheless I feel this is a RCV3 problem in ATC Oceanic Distribution of ATC Centers.Regards

[PeteP 2]

As far as the real-world goes, you're correct about Gander and Shanwick. Had you been doing this flight for real, you would have worked Gander Oceanic from about 50W until 30W when you would have been transferred to Shanwick. If your route took you via DOLIP, you'd leave the OCA at 15W (probably either at MALOT or LIMRI) at which point you'd be handed over to Shannon Control.You don't say where your route took you next, but assuming you turned east to fly across the southern parts of Ireland, Wales and England to leave UK airspace somewhere east of Dover, you would be transferred from Shannon to London Control then, at the London/Brussels UIR boundary to Maastricht. I've no idea why RC didn't pick up this sequence because, although not perfect, it has a resonable facimile of the airspace divisions on your route. I'll have to leave it to one of the RC3 team to work out whether it was you or the program which was in error but if you want to post your flight plan here I'll take a look and see if there's anything obvious that's causing the problem.Pete

[Guest klucznik]

Hello Pete, Thanks for your response to my question. You have the info down pat. I came in from the NA at LIMRI, then DOLIP and the VOR CRK. Yes, I flew right over Southern Ireland and progressed into the Southern part of England. About mid-England I was turned over to London Control and then, a little further down the line, while enroute to Frankfurt, was turned over to Maastricht control. (I hope I spelled that one corretly.) I have discussed this with one of our Virtual Pilots, one who flew these routes many times while a copilot in the RW, and he too simply states Radar Contact has it wrong. As this isn't the first time RCv3 has the wrong ATC Centers controlling aircraft I am getting sort of used to it. I suspect, based on what I've seen so far, that the RC folks do not intend to correct any of these programming flaws simply because they never have done so yet. Maybe in Version 4? That is if another company doesn't come down the road and release a superior ATC program. Pete, I do not know how to attach a file to the Forum note but I would gladly send you either the FSN and/or PLN files if you clue me in on the method of sending attached files or send an email address. Thank you for your insight and your willingness to share.Regards

[jd 57]

tell us a long/lat that you were at, and what center rc said you were in, and what center you thought you should be in.

[PeteP 2]

As I had the house to myself this evening I thought I'd try a flight from KEWR to EDDF via YYT and DOLIP to see if I got the same results - I didn't.After departure, I was transferred to New York, Boston and Monkton Centres as expected. With 225 nms to run to YYT I was transferred to Gander (domestic) and at 51W to Gander Oceanic. Spot-on 30W I was told to contact Shanwick and 3nms after passing LIMRI (15W), I was passed to Shannon. I stopped the flight there.This, of course, doesn't help you find out why it went wrong on your flight but it does at least cut down on the possible reasons. Whatever the cause, I think that you can exclude "programming flaws" in RC3 since it clearly does know who controls what airspace on that route.Pete

[Guest klucznik]

Hello Pete and JD, That is very interesting Pete. I will, once again, redo my flight to insure that what I heard from ATC was indeed correct. I do keep alert to ALL ATC messages because I want the ATC to be correct. I am encouraging our Virtual Group to purchase RCv3 and I am hoping not to get any negative feedback from any of them. If you would Pete, send me your FSN plan for your flight and I will send you my FSN for this flight. My email address is: marbla@naisp.net I used the NAT tracks for the day of flight and left TUSKY on N55B to YYT and TRAKT:TRACK T/ EWR..MERIT..HFD..PUT..BOS..TUSKY.N55B.YYT.TRAKTTRACK U/ EWR..MERIT..HFD..PUT..BOS..BRADD.N45B.COLOR.TRAKUTRACK V/ EWR..MERIT..HFD..PUT..BOS..KANNI.N37B.BANCS.TRAKV Again, let me see if my first result IS repeatable. I'll try to write down the ATC Centers as we progress down the line. Here is my flight-plan in the PLN format:# Type: Name: Frequency: Course: Dist.: Time:============================================================================================ Depart: Newark Intl [KEWR] ATC: 132.45 0 nm 00:00 Arrive: Frankfurt/Main [EDDF] ATC: 118.02 3453 nm 06:55============================================================================================ Aircraft: Boeing 747-400 Lufthansa Cruise: 291 kts============================================================================================1 Depart: Newark Intl [KEWR] ATC : 132.45 0 nm 00:00 --> Climb to 39000 feet.2 Waypoint: Intersection [MERIT] 62

[Guest klucznik]

Hello once again Pete, I ask you a question: How can I place any credence on what you said if you won't send me the flight-plan that you claim worked per script while I DID send the exact flight-plan that I used that had those Oceanic Control problems I stated? In the state of MA we like folks to put their money where their mouths are. Coarse language but it does tell it like it is.Regards

[jd 57]

blais, let me give you a little background. pete is a controller at london center. so while he is sleeping, let me interject a few thoughts:if he says he flew a flight from the us to england, and the hand offs occurred at the right locations to the right centers, he probably knowsif you have fsnav, fsnav will tell you what center you are in. fsnav uses the same data that i do, airac, by richard stefan at http://www.navdata.at/we've probably flown hundreds of oceanic flights, cross referncing them with fsnav, and charts. if there is something broke, we'll fix it. but to fix it, we need data.if you want me to look at it, give me the long/lat of where your plane is, what center rc thinks you should be in, and what center you think you should be. i'll take a look.finally, to tell someone who is trying to help you, "put up or shutup" is not the best maneuver. it might work in MA, but i doubt it flies in the UK, and it sure doesn't fly in GAjd

[Guest klucznik]

Hello JD, I deserve your hard words but, as you know, I am a hard person even though I do not mean to be. Yes I do use FSNav with the current AIRAC cycle as well as all of the Canadian, North Atlantic and European Maps (Jeppesen) both H-A IFR and L-A IFR as well as the current NATS data. My point was, though, I know what response I received from ATC while flying my flight-plan but would appreciate the flight-plan of one who has a different ATC experience flying a similar route. Nothing More. I will indeed give you data. Probably more than you need but I rather give you an ample supply of data and let you decide what is worthwhile and discard the rest. I am starting the trip right now and will have results tomorrow.Sincere Regards (Believe it or not JD)

[PeteP 2]

In the state of MA we like folks to put their money where their mouths are.Do you indeed, Blais? Well, at the times you sent your first message, 00:39 BST (British Summer Time) and your second, 03:38 BST, my mouth was on my pillow along with the rest of my head. Don't know about you but I've always found it very difficult to read and answer e-mails when I'm fast asleep.Pete

[PeteP 2]

Thanks for answering that while I was asleep, jd. It's my own stupid fault for spending a whole evening trying to help someone with Mr Klucznik's reputation - I shan't be making that mistake again.All the bestPete

[Guest klucznik]

Hello Pete, I cannot blame you for feeling the way you do in reference to my terse way of stating my frustration. My words were hard, yes, but were your words befitting those of what is considered a British Gentleman. Since last evening I have run two complete flights from KEWR to EDDF using exactly the same flight-plan as the first flight and both flights were picture perfect. The correct controllers and only the correct controller responded when they should have. There were absolutely no problems with either of these two flights. Yet I DO KNOW what I DID hear in that first flight. Although I make it a habit to walk away from the keyboard from the time of handing over the controls to the CP and not returning until Jeff is ready to turn the aircraft back to me, it is possible than a pencil or similar object might have dropped and inadvertently hit a key or what-have-you on the keyboard. This could have triggered a 'debugging hook' that JD may have programmed in and possibly caused some problem. I don't know but it is common practice for programmers to insert these hooks in their program to assist in debugging problems. They are almost always undocumented, as far as the general user is concerned, and simply sit idly by. As I know what I heard on the original flight I am going to decompile the RCv3 executable to possibly find what went wrong and why.Regards to you in England.

[Guest klucznik]

JD, I was unaware that Pete was a controller but that really doesn't make any difference because my reply to him was directed to an individual regardless of his employment status. I wish we could converse, all of us, without an air or arrogance I seem to detect in many of us. I am not, and never did, question Pete's integrity as to what he experieced but am questioning his attitude as displayed in his initial response. The "I did it and the outcome was correct thus you must be wrong" approach just struck me below the belt. I just wish I had FSLook2 installed at that time thus been able to see what coordinates Radar Contact was really looking at rather than those displayed on FSNav and FS2002. I am beginning to get the feeling that if a specific keyboard key, and there are probably several, is even temporarily depressed, as in a dropped pencil or whatever, the result could be disastrous to RC3V while not impacting FS2002 or FSNav in any way. I'm working on it.Regards

[jd 57]

there are no special keys, save your time, go fly and enjoy the experience.just put all the pencils away, first :-)