tigert

Check these pages: http://mikkila.wabbits.org/fsbus/doc/index_e.phpEspecially the photos of the finished boards so you can compare them to what your boards would look like (remember which side is for copper and which is for components!) - and double check.Tuomas

>Tuomas,>You have done a fantastic job on this pit. It's been a source>of inspiration for me. I'm just beginning mine and will use>yours as a model. BTW, do you have any plans for the radio>stack that you would be willing to share? Maybe a cad or>photoshop drawing? I'm just starting my FSBUS boards and your>layout would work perfectly for me.>Thanks & keep up the good work,>Dannyi must stress that we have a team of maybe four-five very active builders who have put this together, when needed there have been more people helping as well, whenever people had time to spend on it.I did the radio designs in Illustrator, but the versions I have are too small, but I need to ask a friend for the last, correct sized files.We just used plywood behind the panel, but the design perchas has done is a good approach too. What you probably should do is to get the "breadboard" - a circuit board with the 2.54mm spaced holes and copper "blobs" on the copper side, and assemble your components on that - then design a front plate to fit.For the front we used just laminated b/w laser print paper. It is not ideal but does the job. If the corners start curling and tearing, we need to figure out something.Perchas, how did you do the front plate of your panels? Is it painted? Engraved..?Here's an older design of mine that might be useful: http://tigert.gimp.org/files/fs2002/screen...-printready.pdfThe hole on top is a parallel-port attached 4-line-20-char character LCD display that does all my radio displays at my home setup (which is currently, you guessed it, on hold because of the above :))http://tigert.gimp.org/aviation/vatsim/coc...uff/radiot.jpegYou can find software and instructions for the lcd thingy at http://mikkila.wabbits.org/fsbus -> FSLCD link if I remember the url correctly, my DNS server is acting weird currently :/Tuomas

>Outstanding, as usual, Tuomas.>>Thanks for the update and pictures.We are pretty excited ourselves too. For those who think this is a bad imitation of "emperor's new clothes", my website is down currently, so the pictures are not visible. Hopefully the situation will be resolved quickly.EDIT: Put one of them on another site so you can have a peek:http://primates.ximian.com/~tigert/stuff/a...on/overview.jpgTuomas

Ok, after a week of "tear-everything-down" work, we have a much better mood and stuff starts to look more like an airplane again :)Some pics from tonight:Marker-leds, controlled via FSBUS - Outer, Middle and Inner marker.http://tigert.gimp.org/tigert-albums/simu_...e/aaa.sized.jpgFlaps-indicator in the round gauge style. Controlled via FSBUS as well (servo board) because we dont have a potentiometer flap controller, but rather a (on)-OFF-(on) switch for this.http://tigert.gimp.org/tigert-albums/simu_...e/aab.sized.jpgOverview of panel, note the marker leds in the middle. Yes, it really is painted plywood :)http://tigert.gimp.org/tigert-albums/simu_...e/aac.sized.jpghttp://tigert.gimp.org/tigert-albums/simu_...e/aaf.sized.jpgThe stuff still needs the trim wheel hooked up somehow to the centering springs that we need to assemble to the yoke, so there is some brainwork left.There are also a bunch of open issues with Simkits, which will hopefully be resolved with the dude at Simkits support. He is very responsive which is good.Anyway, enjoy the pics. We also put black curtains in place of doors to keep outside distractions away, and to block outside light in case one wants to fly at night. It does very much add to the feeling of "being there" when all you se "outside" is the FS scenery. And the speakers under our butt do help in that as well, you can feel if the engine is running or not.. :)/Tuomas

Of course, then, FS2002 and 2004 ATC sucks quite a bit if you really want to learn and fly in controlled airspace.May I recommend VATSIM for serious air traffic control fun instead? www.vatsim.net/Tuomas

>Hi All, >I have made these panels for my own use, is not my intention>to commercialize them, however, they generated such a big>interest that I am crushed.The quality of your work is amazing!>I want to share the manufacturing costs with you all, only an>increase of 5% or 10% to cover my costs with the prototypes>and also to make Dirk Anderseck of FSBUS a gift (a kit of>PCB

Dirk, is it possible to have a rotary output key event "a" when rotated up, and event "b" when rotated down? with those you could make each rotary make key events and bind those to the FSUIPC keyboard things like XPDR_1000_INC, XPDR_100_INC, XPDR_10_INC, XPDR_1_INC etc../Tuomas

For networked pc's with wideview, do the slaves also produce sound?Then one could selectively mute the ATC from a PC and everything else from another PC, and you get separated ATC sound. Whether that works in reality, I have no idea.Tuomas

What ID's did you assign to the LED and display boards? Each need an unique one, and you need to use the same one when testing. This is the "CID". So each display has its own CID, and you need to use that one in the configuration as well.Tuomas

>Could someone explain how that was built? It is pretty close>to the 767 MCP. Maybe with 767 color paint it would look more>realistic. I have always wanted a MCP but didn't want to spend>500 dollars getting a pre-made one. That one looks pretty>inexpensive. Thanks!http://mikkila.wabbits.org/fsbus/partanen/index.phpSee that for pics, text is in finnish.Long story short, it was made with FSBUS - www.fsbus.de - or you can just get the Aerosoft MCP if you want something that "just works" without much tweaking.Tuomas

>So...a few ideas:>- Buy/get a sample of each component you need for your panels>and use the exact measurements to design/build the panel >>- Book/Catalog measurements are not always the best ones to>design around. For example. A switch width may be 15mm, but>the hole needs to be 16.5mm bcause of clearance. You can>estimate that it needs 1mm and you'll end up filing things>down. Actual parts are best.Yea, I have to agree. Also, you should plan on the electronics part as well, so you might as well get a bunch of different knobs, switches and rotaries etc, and build yourself a MCP ("autopilot") box in some plastic box or something for now - it gives a great fun to sim flying and gets you started on the electronics part as well. Then it all pays off when you are building the "real thing".This is something a friend did, this has just an overlay of label design that I did for him and what he printed and laminated to get a rough panel thing. It does not try to look "real", but it works and gave him a solid idea of how this stuff works. They are building a "real" cockpit next.http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/PANEELI3.jpgTuomas

>This post started (or appeared to) as an anti FSUIPC thread>and has turned into what can best be described as an elitist>post.Well, we are the elite of home cockpit hobbyists, as much this stuff can be elite, like it or not. I mean, this group does have a lot of knowledge and ideas, and in my opinion being "elite" does not need to mean you are arrogant and act like idiots. The real elite is the spirit of sharing information. But the problem with the hobby is that you need to do a huge amount of research, there are no ready-made ACME Instant Home Cockpit products. Well, for reasonable price, for a very good reason: this is very special hardware for a small marginal group of people.>If it wasn't for the software and hardware guys like the two>Peters then where would someone, like me who whilst a>programmer wouldn't know where to start with writing an>equivalent for my needs. Yeah. Luckily there are things like GoFlight and SimKits that help a big deal in getting started. But one needs to keep feet on the ground - some of the stuff is good, but there are cases where people are asking insane amounts of money just because they are the only ones making such things. Like SimKits circuit breakers. Their other products are good, the gauges are of reasonable price. Some things are just priced way over the top because the target customer base is so small that you cannot make big product series to cut down costs.>It is my dream to have a flight deck, and in order to realise>that I will need to seek help. There are a number of>companies out there making hardware panels but from what I can>see, none come close to the quality offered by Peter Cos of>www.flightdecksolutions.comPeter's stuff is awesome and he is making a big impression in getting new builders start in the hobby I bet. The machinery is just insanely expensive so that makes prices high. I am not saying he makes a huge profit from it.>In short, from what I can see most of the folk involved in the>hobby on a commercial aspect started off as hobbyists>themselves. By virtue of that that makes them individuals,>and as such I am sure they have feelings.>>All that is served by this type of thread is to alienate them.> Why bother for such a small return? Its not as if every FS>user is going to use the likes of FSUIPC, scenery of some>country or make a flightdeck. Sure, go ahead and lay whatever>claims that they are out to make a fast buck. I just see it>as jealousy.>>Oh, for the record, I'm just a happy FSUIPC customer and soon>to be a FDS one too. Once it comes to building I know that>this forum exists but I hope to use self support first. After>all, thats how we learn is it not?Yea, I think you got me wrong (if it was my message you referred to) - what I meant is that what benefits the hobby and us as builders is the sharing of information, and the increase of tutorials, new ideas and knowledge. Not necessarily just "a lot of builders" but more like "a lot of builders who have clever ideas and enjoy sharing them"Of course more builders mean more hardware sales for the manufacturer folks, and leads to competition which ought to lower prices and increase quality, which is of course good.But the big aspect of this hobby is that thre is just *so much* of knowledge you need to get to be able to complete the cockpit, that just having a set of FDS panels is not going to magically get you there. A lot of people used to say that first do your research for a year, then start with a small prototype cockpit and once that is done and you know how stuff works, do the "real thing".So, my intention was not to alienate anyone, not to discourage newcomers or anything, but I just wanted to point out that there is no shortcut to skip the "learn stuff, do research, fail and learn from that" -part. What helps there are people like Mike of www.mikesflightdeck.com who document things, see new ideas and put them on the site for others to learn from. That is what helps most, gives people new ideas and makes innovations happen.Tuomas

>people a little bit more. I can tell you guys right now>(IMHO) that there are not as many people in this hobby as we>might think. We need all we can get. So let's try and be a>little more helpful, no matter who's right or wrong.I agree on the "be helpful" part, but as a hobbyist, we are a small bunch, but the concentration of knowledge and ideas is good. I dont see that as a bad thing. Why do we "need all we can get"?Now, I can understand the point of view if one is selling home cockpit hardware or wants to cash in with surplus aircraft parts on ebay, but as a hobbyist there is no point in having everyone and their cat buy a fine set of Airbus panels from Peter Cos, and then storm this forum with "what do I do next?" -messages.. :) Of course people making money from such things are happy, but it doesnt benefit us as a hobby. Dont get me wrong though, I am happy to see new folks join and ask questions (answering a bunch myself too) - but just growing the community without a reason makes no sense. Let it grow naturally so there are more knowledgeable folks too to handle the newbies that need help to get started.What benefits is the completed projects, the ideas shared and problems solved. Just like with FSUIPC. Hardware manufacturers should just make a nice royalty for Pete from their beefy profit margin (check out some of the simkits lately announced stuff for example) instead so that Pete can get someone to handle the support work and stop worrying about it while concentrating on the development instead.Tuomas

Free software is a great thing. But the decision to make something free or even share the sourcecode etc are completely the decision of the author.If you want a free software solution for your simulation needs, please join the FlightGear project (www.flightgear.org) and contribute, they have a completely free, open source flight simulator that is progressing pretty nicely. And they are happy to have your help. There is no big budget to pay the people, they do it from the love into aviation and programming.But basically this is an issue with anything that becomes very very popular like FSUIPC, or Squawkbox 3 for example (even before the release :)) - the author notices an ever increasing demand for the support and feature requests etc. Which is great of course, I bet most software authors enjoy seeing their code being widely used. But the enthusiastic user group has grown, a lot of "clueless" users joined, needing more spoon-feeding to get their stuff working, more feature requests, more bug reports, more this and more that. It takes *time*, unbelieveable amounts of time. Pete was (and probably still is) doing FSUIPC fulltime. Would you do your job for free? He did that for the last few years.While it is good to have free software I am in no position to tell anyone what they do wiht their code and time. Whatever I write myself is on my control. I think FSUIPC is worth its price - I paid for FS2004 as well.Tuomas

You should ask in the fs2004 forum (search first for existing discussion on the topic)This forum is about custom hardware for flightsim, not about sim panels and such in general.Best wishes,Tuomas

>If you do a search on this site you will find several threads>on the subject of projectors. I don't know if any delt with>mirrors. I recall that being on of the problems mentioned by>the people who were using projection.>>A good cheap mirror is hard to find, if it even exsits>>JohnFor collimation you need a curved mirror, those are hard to construct. I think the "Big" sims use a silver foil that is stretched smooth to a paraboloid shape with a vacuum pump.A flat mirror wont give you the collimated "depth" feeling.Tuomas

You should get one of those "multimeters" that lets you measure resistance, then you can see which pins have what. It's very useful for a lot of things anyway.Tuomas

>I think this has the potential to be an exercise machine that>won't end up in a yard sale ;).Or it'll end up in EBay as an "FLIGHT SIM EXCERCISE CONTROLLER" and someone will.. um. I better shut up in this audience :^)Tuomas

Maybe register your copy?For the efforts of Pete Dowson, the price for FSUIPC, and what it makes possible, it is a small price.Tuomas

I think the question everyone is thinking is: HOW did you do the PANEL?It looks awesome. Is it plexi? How is it made? CNC? Silk screen?Please just tell us, the wait is killing everyone ;^)Tuomas

This has been a fun thread to read, and not completely nonsense either :)Anyway, I think the point above is a good one: go for a walk and do mental planning of stuff. I do that quite a bit - makes walking the dogs much less "boring" - thouhg the small hairy dudes usually figure out things to keep me from boring even without extra thoughts :)But it makes sense to go, take some fresh air and think about stuff - then the time is not "wasted" but rather you are likely to get new ideas.Tuomas

>Just willing to know where you get your concentric buttons ??>!! Carefull I'm not speaking here about dual rotaries or>encoders of any sort, I already got that behind the panel.>What I want to find is what is in front of the panel now !!I found mine from an electronics store, a larger, short knob that has a 6mm hole through and a tightening nut built in around the hole, and a smaller one for 4mm shaft.http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/knobs1.pnghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/knobs2.pnghttp://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/knobs3.jpgSorry about the bad image quality, I hope you get the idea.>I'm currently working on the Collins sets of NAV/COM's... like>that one :(removed image)> (By the way gif is at real size)The gif "real size" totally depends on what resolution and size your monitor is. But yea, those are quite big. We did collins-lookalikes (the old model) for our simulator too, since our 7-segments were pretty big.http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/RadioStack.jpgAnd since someone asks anyway, the frontplate is laminated paper, behind it is a panel made from plywood that hosts the switches and other stuff.Tuomas

Just make sure if it is AT or ATX so you know if you need that pin connection or not?I think AT power supplies have the thick cord with the master ON/OFF switch in it, plus the PC connectors, whereas on an ATX supply the powerswitch works through the motherboard.Tuomas

>I have an unused AT Power Supply I want to use for my Simkits>>Motherboard. But when I put the 220V and the switch "on" off>the >Power supply nothing happend.. :-(>>I think I've to bridge some wire to command the start of the>device>like if the was connect in the PC ?Are you sure it is AT and not ATX? The newer are ATX and need a "load" resistance on the connector. I know there are instructions on how to make it work, but I fail to remember the connections. Maybe someone else will tip you with an url for the info.Btw, when you are fixing the gauges, you dont necessarily need to glue them together (easier to fix them later if needed) - instead use this kind of a setup:http://tigert.gimp.org/vatsim/cockpit-stuff/gaugestrap.gifA metal strap diagonally on the screws on opposite corners of the gauge front plate.Tuomas

Ok. This is a bit complicated at first, dont worry. Let me try to explain.This is from my config: Set up a PTT (push to talk) switch for Roger Wilco / AVC voice client for VATSIM flying. Basically the voice client expects a keypress to activate "talk" mode. I have set it to be F12 -key. As long as it is pressed down, my voice is transmitted.So, from FSBUS: You add a "New -> Keyboard/Mouse" and call it "PTTKey" or something, the name is just a label.Then you set ControllerID to "0" (zero) - this is important, zero means "local event", if it is non-zero FSBUS tries to send those to a FSBUS running in a remote machine on your LAN, which doesnt exist. So: Keyboard/Mouse: "PTTKey": ControllerID: 0, Active (x), Invert ( ). On Sequence: "K+VK_F12" Off Sequence: "K-VK_F12"Now, this "K+VK_WHATEVER" stuff is what you can find out wiht the FSFinder program, type keys to find their "keycode" and write the stuff on the sequence section. You can combine stuff: K+VK_SHIFT;d30;K+A means "press shift down, wait 30 milliseconds, press down key "A" (caps, but it means "a" that then becomes "A" because of the shift key.Then bind your button to this: Destinations: Add FSBUS destination -> PTTKey.PTTKey's "ON sequence" happens when your connected button becomes 1, OFF sequence when it becomes 0 again.I hope this helps, ask if something didnt make sense. And dont worry, FSBUS 2 is a lot easier than 1.3 ever was, but it is still quite complex art to configure some things :)Tuomas