NGX PAJN CHLKT1 departure no go ? /Andrew, Matt

[ALF1 15]

I tried to do AS 65 last night to PANC in the NGX, looked at the Departures and Arrivals and could not find this departure.

 

Is this a private Alaska Airlines departure also ? I installed Andrew's file for PAJN which overwrites the Navigraph PAJN so it might be a new departure for everybody but I am guessing it is owned by Alaska ?

[Stearmandriver 2,324]

Yeah it's one of the proprietary ones. Truthfully there's nothing that special about it, but I've been cautioned against releasing any of the current stuff, so I guess I won't, sorry. But just do the ASORT2.ASORT.J541.JOH.WITTI1 and it'll be basically the same thing. (Can't remember if the ASORT was in the file I started with - if not just do the JNU5.SSR and pick up the airway there.)

[BlueStar 323]

Unless things have changed, I do not believe there are equivalent civilian approaches to the AS approaches/departures into and out of PAJN.  The approaches/departures are RNAV based to RWY08 and RWY26.  The approach plates don't  tell half the story.  :wink:  

[Stearmandriver 2,324]

Unless things have changed, I do not believe there are equivalent civilian approaches to the AS approaches/departures into and out of PAJN.  The approaches/departures are RNAV based to RWY08 and RWY26.  The approach plates don't  tell half the story.  :wink:

 

This is true of the procedures that involve flying down the Gastineau. The CHLKT (off of 26) is just a more efficient departure to the NW, it saves some miles when you're on your way to YAK, CDV, ANC. Given the number of departures we do per day out of JNU, the savings add up. Just fly the ASORT, it may be 30 miles or so longer of a route, but negligible for a sim. ;-) (The CHLKT off of 08 is a different story, but if you can't take off on 26, just do the immediate turn off 08, as charted. It'll probably work.)

[ALF1 15]

Thanks Andrew.

 

Unless things have changed, I do not believe there are equivalent civilian approaches to the AS approaches/departures into and out of PAJN.  The approaches/departures are RNAV based to RWY08 and RWY26.  The approach plates don't  tell half the story.  :wink:  

 

Right, we´re stuck with the basic stuff, which is hardly adequate.

 

BTW, I don´t think that the other airlines don´t do Alaska procedures because they don´t know how to or because they cannot figure it out. It is my understanding that Alaska went through a lot of time, effort, and expense to get those procedures approved by the FAA.

 

So even if the procedures were known to others, they could still not be executed because they would not be authorized to do so ?

[BlueStar 323]

 

So even if the procedures were known to others, they could still not be executed because they would not be authorized to do so ?

I could give you the waypoints for the SID/STAR/AP but they would not be in your FMC.

[Stearmandriver 2,324]

I could give you the waypoints for the SID/STAR/AP but they would not be in your FMC.

Strangely, some of them are in the navigraph database. When I was noodling with building these procedures (by modifying the sidstars .txt files to define the waypoints, then building the procedures) I found that some of them are already defined by navigraph, and in the right places. MARMN, for instance I think is one. I always wondered where navigraph got them. Bluestar, if you're an AS guy and you'd like to play with these procedures in the sim, I can send them to you. I've got JNU, SIT, PSG, WRG, KTN and I think maybe YAK built, you just load them in the box like real life. It was a puzzle to both replicate the real routes and find a way that makes the sim fly them. PM me, I'll just need to verify ID.

[ALF1 15]

Yeah TRDWL, LEMNN are there too. But Andrew, if I try to use FUNTR as a waypoint it is a no go. Yet it is part of the RNAV 26 in your folder but works only on the missed approach.

[BlueStar 323]

Thanks for the offer Andrew, but I've already got them built.

[Stearmandriver 2,324]

Yeah TRDWL, LEMNN are there too. But Andrew, if I try to use FUNTR as a waypoint it is a no go. Yet it is part of the RNAV 26 in your folder but works only on the missed approach.

Right. Weird huh? There are 2 different places in the navdata files where fixes are defined. There's a "fixes" file (I forget what it's called) that defines every fix in the world that you can plug in to the box as an independent fix. Then there's the individual sidstars text file for a given airport. There's a fixes section in those too. Every fix used in a procedure defined in that file has to be defined in that file, even if it's already been defined in the main "fixes" file. The opposite is also true, like your FUNTR example: if a fix is only defined in an airport's sidstars file, you cannot use it unless it gets loaded as part of a procedure.

[M_Sauce 6]

Here are some of the Alaska RNP procedures for SE Alaska.

 

http://library.avsim.net/search.php?CatID=fsxmisc&SearchTerm=bonaccorso&Sort=Added&ScanMode=0&Go=Change+View