Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest SkullxBones

Ridiculously long vectors

Recommended Posts

Guest SkullxBones

I'm running FSX. Most of the time I enjoy flying full procedures and ask for IAP and have no problems. When I let RC vector me in sometimes it takes me on ridiculously long vectors. For instance today, I was on a short flight from Palm Springs to Long Beach in the Pilatus PC-12. I used TEC route PSPM6, about 125 miles due west. About a thrid of the way into the trip I get vectored on a 100 mile round trip course to the south and back. No problem, just wasted gas and time. Rather than turn me back on course I then get vectored 150 miles north of course until I would have crashed into a mountain range and ATC has the nerve to lecture me about deviating right before impact. No telling how long they would have kept me on that course. Even if they would have been paying attention and turned me back, I would have been vectored a total of 400 miles off of course, turning a 125 short hop into a 525 flight assuming no more vectors.Is there something wrong with my installation or does RC4 have a problem with vectors sometimes?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

never had a problem with vectors.did you miss your crossing restriction? did you have your altimeter set correctly?if you can duplicate the problem, make a log, and send it to mejd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest SkullxBones

Nothing out the ordinary. I was at cruise alt, and altimeter was set. At first I thought ATC might have lost me after continuing 150 miles to the north, but as soon as I deviated from the mountain, she was quick to lecture, so she must have been happy with my course and alt prior to the deviation. Funny thing is, this happened after departing KPSP, and last time I remember a flight where I was sent on very long vectors, I was arriving at KPSP and I got vectored way to the south.I'll try the same flight in the next couple days and see if it repeats the same behavior.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

be sure to click debug before loading the .plnjd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest SkullxBones

I forgot to turn on debug.I flew the same flight plan two more times and got the same results. I have holding 'ON' and I did have Otto handling the COMS and after reading the manual it appears it will always put me in 'delay vectors' holding with these options. I let one flight go just to see how far it would vector me and after crossing into Oregon, some 500 miles north, I turned off course just to see if ATC was still following me and I got lectured for deviating.It appears to me LA Center is saying Arrival isn't accepting anymore traffic due to saturation. But it never clears and accepts new traffic after that.This happens near ACINS waypoint when ATC transfers me to LA Center:(LA Center)Due to traffic saturation Arrivals closed the door, (on another flight they said) Arrivals shut us off.Expect delay vectorsCleared direct to SLIFly heading 265Until receiving suitable for NAV Proceed direct when able.After this I get vectored around ending up on a 335 northerly direction until the fuel runs out.Here is the Flight Plan - TEC Route PSPM6.KPSP.V388.ACINS.V283.SLI.KLGBtranslated to FSX[flightplan]AppVersion=9.0.30612title=KPSP to KLGBdescription=KPSP, KLGBtype=IFRroutetype=3cruising_altitude=12000departure_id=KPSP, N33* 49.78', W116* 30.40', +000476.50departure_position=0destination_id=KLGB, N33* 49.06', W118* 9.09', +000060.50departure_name=Palm Springs Intldestination_name=Long Beachwaypoint.0=, KPSP, , KPSP, A, N33* 49.78', W116* 30.40', +000476.50, waypoint.1=, , , DEWAY, I, N33* 56.92', W116* 44.39', +012000.00, waypoint.2=, , , ACINS, I, N33* 56.03', W117* 9.72', +012000.00, waypoint.3=, , , HDF, V, N33* 46.58', W117* 11.11', +012000.00, waypoint.4=, , , DEJAY, I, N33* 46.77', W117* 29.86', +012000.00, waypoint.5=, , , KAYOH, I, N33* 46.82', W117* 35.40', +012000.00, waypoint.6=, , , JOGIT, I, N33* 46.90', W117* 46.85', +012000.00, waypoint.7=, , , SLI, V, N33* 46.99', W118* 3.28', +012000.00, waypoint.8=, KLGB, , KLGB, A, N33* 49.06', W118* 9.09', +000060.50, I also set up two other flights, a short one, and one about the same length as the problem flights above. KSNA.SLI.KLGB a very short flight. Got vectored right in. This went straight from Departure to Arrival, no LA Center. L35.SLI.KLGB about the same distance as the original flight and got the same saturation problem from LA Center, this time they vectored me right into a mountian pretty quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you have holding on, and you otto has the comms, you will always get delay vectors.but you have to fly the plane, which means, descending and turning per ATC. be sure your altimeter is set correctly.do it again with debug on, and i can tell you where you should be doing something different.jd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest SkullxBones

I flew the same flight plan again, with similar results. This time I ended up being vectored 100 miles south on course 155 until I crossed the Mexican boarder when I stopped the flight.At one point in the flight ATC instructs me 'I say again, fly heading 245'. Trouble is ATC never ask me to fly 245 the first time. I noticed this same error in the ATC in 3 of the last 4 times I flew this flight plan. It says "I say again" but never issued the first instruction. I will be curious to see what you find in the logs on this. Here is the log:http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=65d3e5d...2db6fb9a8902bda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest j-mo

If it's OK, I'd like to jump in. TEC routes was a new term for me. I was curious, found out what it was, then decided to fly the PSP-LGB route. Flew the route once with Holding off, no issues. Flew it again with holding on. No problems at first. The delay vectors basically sent me into a giant-size holding pattern, which had me reverse course but kept me in the mountain pass. After a couple circuits, I was turned over to Approach. That's when I had a problem.Los Angeles Control had instructed me to descend from 10,000 to 6,000 just before the delay vectors. Approach turned me from 240 hdg to 150, and said to descend to 4,000. I knew there were mountains ahead, so I descended gradually at 500 fpm. Before reaching 4,000, Approach instructed me to descend to 3,000. This definitely was going to fly me into terrain. I continued the descent and waited as long as I could, hoping for a course change. None came, so I climbed with a slight course correction to about 160. I fully expected to scrape the belly of the plane, but I narrowly missed the mountains. Of course, I was scolded for busting altitude. After clearing the mountains, all was straightforward.So what I'm wondering is, does RC know about the terrain there? I should mention I have FSG, and was flying a Piper Twin Comanche.Regards,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you know you have terrain at the arrival or departure airport, you need to check the notams box. that way all clearances are prefaced with "when able..."jd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest j-mo

Well... I'm aware of, but had forgotten about, the NOTAMs box. Since this was my first flight to that destination, which is near the ocean, I guess I assumed I'd have safe vectoring. In the future, I'll always check to see if there's a chance I need to check it.Thanks for your reply.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest SkullxBones

Alex, after reading your first post, I was surprised to hear you were handed off to Approach, since that has never happened in my previous 4 attempts with this flight plan. I always stayed with LA Center until the fuel ran out or I hit a mountain.It got me thinking, what was the difference. I had already tried a very short flight to the same airport with the same last waypoint and had no troubles, but with the longer flight from KPSP it always ended with the endless delay vector. So I wondered if you might have taken longer to set up the flight than I since I already had everything programmed and maybe you weren't flying as fast as I was. So I set up the flight again, this time with a 30 minute delay until departure and I slowed my aircraft to 140 knots. This time I was successful. Got transfered to LA Center, got the saturation delay, but then was eventually handed off to Approach and landed successfully. No endless delay.Conclusion- if I fly the KPSP-KLGB route promptly leaving the gate without delay and once airborne mantain 220 knots, I get endless delay vectors from LA Center. If I delay departure and fly slower, no problems other than possible terrain collision.JD- could this possibly be due to the way FSX bunches up flights after a short period of time after a new flight is started, and maybe I am being handed off to LA Center during this peak flight activity and it screws up ATC somehow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you create a .log for me, i can tell you what is going wrong.speed, ai density, has nothing to do with anything. if holding is on, you're going to get held.jd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest SkullxBones

JD- I just sent you a zipped copy of my log.This isn't a big deal to me, I can easily turn off holding and solve the problem. I am just curious to know if it is a glitch in RC4 or something about the way my system is configured.I have repeated this flight under the exact same conditions leaving the gate promptly and flying at 12000ft and 220kts, and all four times I have done this, I get put on an indefinite hold until I run out of fuel or ATC runs me into a mountain. The key here is I NEVER get transfered to Approach. I am on indefinite hold from LA Center.But if I fly this same plan delaying takeoff for 30 minutes and only 140kts, ATC behaves as expected. Delay vectors from LA Center, but they do hand me off to Approach and I don't get the indefinitely delay. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there were errors by the ATC during this flight. ATC does not inform me of a course change, but then says 'I say again, fly heading 245'. It never said fly heading 245 the first time. This same error has happened in three separate attempts with this plan under the same conditions (no delay/220kts). If I delay takeoff, fly 140kts, I don't get this error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...