Purchased the product and am impressed after a couple of test flights butI am concerned about the lack of SID/STARS. I had assumed a product in this price range would have all procedures built in (like reality XP Garmin).I have read that users will be able to create them and I saw a message about a converter being developed but I personally would not be interested in multi downloads everytime I wanted a new flight. I also do not want to rely on others manually developing procedures that may contain errors. I appreciate some people will like the idea of developing procedures but not me.I understand FS2004 will have all procedures built in and the pilot will be able to request any procedure for any airport - will I be able to request a procedure and choose that in the FMC?Will this product have full SID/STARS at some point or only downloadable procedures, seperate from any NAV data?MrBitsy.

Ok, one day since I asked the question and no direct reply (I understand you are busy). From other answers given on the forum I am led to believe this product will not include world wide SID/STARS but will rely on users designing them, or importing procedures from elswhere. Could someone from PMDG please confirm if this is the case.I personally am not interested in designing procedures or looking for them once I have decided to fly somewhere. From the PMDG site, development period and initial user views I thought a product of this price would include a full nav database.I would appreciate PMDG making this issue clear.MrBitsy.

Mr Bitsy, we require you sign your posts with your real name (which I guess it is not.. If it is, sorry :-))The product does not include a worldwide procedures database.Terry J. is finalizing his converter which will allow you to benefit from a large available database of procedures.We are also in the process with Terry to deliver as soon as possible procedures for the major airports of major countries...You will find two example files in the PMDGSIDSTARS directory, under your FS root.cheers,anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Hehe... that's an easy answer...But you guys pull your standards high up stakes here!!!We must download the 767PIC navdata.. why didn't you include the SIDS/STARS?What's the point of not including 'Worldwide SID/STAR navdata' when you guys advertising such an advanced product?You already did include worldwide navdata!! but forgot the sid/stars...Or not :()Greetz,Marc Nieuwhof

Marc,There's no short answer to your post, but many reasons...Let me try a few :- We have designed a procedures interpreter that allows for easy importing in the FMC.- This interpreter is based on a "almost" natural language that supports quite a few goodies, like VECTORS- This technology existed when we started the project, as it comes from our FLY! developments (but was *fully* revamped)- We have the flexibility to develop it further, including go around wpts, procedure turns etc- For example you can define airport gate positions in the airport files, to aid in setting the IRS on POS INIT FMC page- ...- check out the files in the FS200xPMDGSIDSTARS, you'll see what I mean.- A PIC preocedures converter developed by TJ will be available soon (As I'm not the developer of it I can't be more precise)...So.. we had to do a choice : provide immediate availability of something pre-existing, or have you wait a bit and come up with something real cool...I understand all users will not agree with the approach... (whatever approach we would have taken, BTW)cheers,anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Sorry for not using my real name!Your reasons for no worldwide navdata are understood. Unfortunately, I just assumed a product in this price range would include full procedures. If I am under control of FS2004 ATC and I select a diversion or want to choose a certain procedure then my FMC will be blank, or I press pause and start searching!I should think many simmers will be looking forward to hours designing charts but I am not one of them! I do not have the time to design my own and would be frustrated waiting for the possibility of a procedure to appear. The only other Airline panel I have contains worldwide procedures.Thanks for the reply and I will be considering a refund (I have yet to apply for the code). The package certainly looks good and flies great! Maybe if the range of procedures to be included could be made available soon, I will be better able to judge if my snap decision to buy was the right one.Ray Keattch.

I am a little puzzled by your approach after thinking about it a little more. Full SID/STARS would have removed the need for users to design their own. It doesn't really matter how good the designer is - what is the point?With an airplane as complete as yours I can't believe people want to design procedures that don't actually exist in the real world. Your product shouts realism from every angle - except full sid / stars!ray Keattch.

I hope the converter will be easy to use,Because all that programming thing to get the sid/star

Actually, I'm glad they didn't include a canned database ala PSS - when was the last time those were updated? The format is so cryptic that people can't even begin to try and edit them. I'd much rather be sure on my own that I have the latest proceedures and that they're correct per my chartsWhat I am rather perturbed about is the fact that DP/STAR transitions are not modeled...Ryan

Thank you for the compliment, greatly appreciated.As for your concern, I sincerely hope you'll be able to live with it until procedures are available for your choice flight plans.You could of course do a few LSGG LSZH hops, as SIDS and STARS are available for those airports... Lake Geneva is beautiful in Summer.Just an idea... Cool cruizing at 14000 ft over Switzerland :-)anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

So you can only fly when you have programmed the procedure? If no-one has programmed the procedure for where you want to go, its either little realism or don't go there!Just seems a daft way to go with a package that is so complete in other areas. What is wrong with a full procedure database that can be edited by users.What I am concerned with is FS2004. We have already seen ANY procedure can be requested from ATC but this 737 will not have the vast majority of them.Ray Keattch

We already have some sids + stars, they are coming Ray.[h5]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smith[/h5][h6]The Next Great one? PMDG's 737NG is here![/h6][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3] [h5]AMD XP 2200 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG @ 215/545|WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"[/h5]

You don't have to design your own. A converter will be available soon so you can just convert them into PMDG format.-Shaun