Shaun,There are currently a few limitations. We don't model yet transitions per se...Yes, you will end up with ATL5.NOONE showing in the FMC.If the sid is for all runways just list them as in :SID TEST RNW 32 RNW 34 KEEP HDG UNTIL 2 FROM NAVAID KLO HDG 332 UNTIL 3500 NOT BEFORE 4 FROM NAVAID KLO HDG 245 INTERCEPT RADIAL 192 FROM NAVAID TRA NAVAID BREGO NAVAID WILanthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

All,- See post with syntax1. checkout my earlier post. For sids list runways at the beginning, for stars at the end. This is possible if the non-runway part is identical. If not, some redudancy will be necessary.2. Nope, transitions are not modelled yet.3. Soft constraints are not modelled yet. They can be input in the FMC (but not in sid star syntax), but it will handle them as AT constraints.4. Approach : see earlier reply. MA, sorry, but no... not YET (hint).anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Umm, no transitions?! Guess that puts a hold on making just about any USA proceedures for the time being - any idea when they'll be modeled? I'm kinda disapointed something so fundamental to the DEP/ARR page isn't there honestly. Hope it doesn't take to long to get it in...Ryan

Ok well in the interest of learning the format, I just tried to program a more complicated procedure - the BXK1 DP out of KPHX:Can someone tell me why this isn't working?SIDSSID BXK1.PKE RNW 25L RNW 25R RNW 26 KEEP HDG UNTIL 1550 HDG 240 NOT BEFORE 13 FROM NAVAID PXR HDG 280 INTERCEPT RADIAL 077 FROM NAVAID BXK NAVAID BXK NAVAID PKEENDSIDSI'm getting an error at the NOT BEFORE part, which I don't understand because it looks exactly like this in the example files...What the procedure is: takeoff, fly runway heading until 1550MSL, at 1550MSL turn left heading 240, at 13DME PXR turn right heading 280 and intercept the BXK R-077 inbound, after BXK, direct PKEWhat's the right way to do that?ThanksRyan

Hm, what seems strange to me is this part: INTERCEPT RADIAL 077 FROM NAVAID BXK. I can't see any problem anywhere else. If I were you I would have tryed changing FROM to TO and then the radial consequently.Today I have successfully wrote many SIDs. I will take a look at yours.Here is an example of my procedures. All are working.//************************************// SIDs and STARs for LJLJ Ljubljana Slovenia// Nejc Brelih June 2003//************************************FIXESFIX D9DOL COLOCATED DOL 056 9.0FIX D15DOL COLOCATED DOL 250 15.0FIX MKRW LATLON N 46 14.1 E 014 26.2ENDFIXESRNWSRNW 13RNW 31ENDRNWSSIDSSID ARLO1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 090 INTERCEPT RADIAL 027 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ARLONSID ARLO2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 090 INTERCEPT RADIAL 027 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ARLONSID BERT1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 250 FROM NAVAID DOL FIX D15DOL NAVAID MG HDG 045 UNTIL RADIAL 330 FROM NAVAID DOL HDG 045 INTERCEPT RADIAL 343 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID BERTASID BERT2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 250 FROM NAVAID DOL FIX D15DOL NAVAID MG HDG 045 UNTIL RADIAL 330 FROM NAVAID DOL HDG 045 INTERCEPT RADIAL 343 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID BERTASID IDRI1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 254 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID IDRIGSID IDRI2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 254 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID IDRIGSID ILB1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 218 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ILBSID ILB2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 218 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ILBSID MAGA1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG NAVAID DOL NAVAID MAGAMSID MAGA1E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG NAVAID DOL NAVAID MAGAMSID MEL1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 125 INTERCEPT RADIAL 138 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID MELSID MEL2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 125 INTERCEPT RADIAL 138 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID MELSID NANI1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 240 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID NANISSID NANI1E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 240 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID NANISSID ROKS1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 141 INTERCEPT RADIAL 164 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ROKSASID ROKS1E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 141 INTERCEPT RADIAL 164 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID ROKSASID SABA1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 152 FROM NAVAID VIW NAVAID SABADSID SABA2E RNW 31 FIX MKRW NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 152 FROM NAVAID VIW NAVAID SABADSID TELS1D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 175 INTERCEPT RADIAL 250 FROM NAVAID DOL FIX D15DOL NAVAID MG KEEP HDG INTERCEPT RADIAL 315 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID TELSISID VALL2D RNW 13 NAVAID MG HDG 090 UNTIL RADIAL 360 FROM NAVAID DOL FIX D9DOL HDG 090 INTERCEPT RADIAL 061 FROM NAVAID DOL NAVAID VALLU ENDSIDSSTARSENDSTARSGATESGATE 1 N 46 13.8 E 14 27.4GATE 2 N 46 13.8 E 14 27.3GATE 3 N 46 13.8 E 14 27.2GATE 4 N 46 13.8 E 14 27.2GATE 5 N 46 13.9 E 14 27.2GATE 6 N 46 13.9 E 14 27.1GATE 7 N 46 13.9 E 14 27.1GATE 8 N 46 13.7 E 14 27.3ENDGATESIf you want to compare theese procedures with charts, then they are availible here: http://www.caa-rs.si/acrobat/aip/charts_si.htmRegards, Nejc

Ok, I wrote this and it is working! I tryed it and everything goes ok!//************************************// SIDs and STARs for KPHX Phoenix USA// Nejc Brelih July 2003//************************************FIXESENDFIXESRNWSRNW 25LRNW 25RRNW 26ENDRNWSSIDSSID BXK1.PKE RNW 25L RNW 25R RNW 26 KEEP HDG UNTIL 1500 HDG 240 UNTIL 13 FROM NAVAID PXR HDG 280 INTERCEPT RADIAL 257 TO NAVAID BXK NAVAID BXK NAVAID PKEENDSIDSSTARSENDSTARSGATESENDGATES//////////////////STOPRegards, Nejc

Anthony,Thanks for the syntax details. No transitions for SIDs/STARs though? Hrm, this is a strange omission. Any idea of a rough time frame on this feature? I'm not asking for a date but just like, is it something for the 600/700 that just didn't make it in before release but will soon? Or is it something for the 800/900?If it's going to be a long time I guess we could "fake it" by just having a different physical STAR in the file for each STAR transition, naming them like MACEY2.SPA, MACEY2.VXV etc. The only real drawback would be that there would be 52 STARs listed in the FMC ARR page, rather than a few STARs where you pick a STAR then are offered a list of transitions. It seems like a lot of work to impliment this hack and then convert every SIDSTAR file ever made once the fix is available though, so please give a rough timeframe so I know if it is worth making the SIDSTAR files now or just waiting for the transitions modeling. :)As far as the approaches to the airport go, that's really not too big of a deal. It's nice in the 75/76 as it will auto-tune the approach frequency if you select an IAP in the FMC. The NG doesn't appear to have navaid auto-tuning though so I guess it's not really a big deal to just look at the chart and input the 2 or 3 fixes along the final approach course. One question, though. Once they're put in, is there functionality in place to "extend the line" once you're on vectors for final? Basically what I mean is selecting the first waypoint along the approach course as a direct-to waypoint, then entering an intercept course, and then this would produce a line extending outwards indefinately from the first waypoint along the extended runway centerline.-Shaun

Yeah. And the toilet won

Hi,look at the syntax thingie I postedhdg UNTIL NB NOTBEFORE NB FROM simplefixentrynot before is for soft alt constraints...What you need is UNTIL ...hope this helpsanthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Shaun,- 800-900 syntax will definitely be richer... priorities.. you know...- yes redundancy can get you there...- intercept courses is unfortunately something that just did not get in release in time... I'm not sure it will be in the coming patch (ok, I said nothing :-)), because it does not only depend on me... So no promises. Latest : 800-900.BUT : what you can do is on the ARR page define a runway extension wpt and after your last STAR wpt before that one, define a HDG xyz VECTORS that will cut the extension / runway line. When you're set, hit the LOC and then APP and you'll be on course to runway.I found out that uploading a rnw entry in L1 after vector interception does not work, but (this will be corrected in the patch as it is a small thing), there's a workaround :say your LEGS page looks like thisvectorRW-EXRW36when you intercepted the runway course to RW36, to upload it to L1, input the airport ICAO id and upload this in L1. The runway entry will be the active.Hope this helps !anthonyAnthony MertonPrecision Manuals Developmenthttp://www.precisionmanuals.com

Anthony - thanks for the tip on the not before thing, I didn't understand how that worked, I do now!On the transition issue though, please tell me we're not going to have to wait months and then have to *pay more* for the 800/900 to have this feature - in my opinion it's a serious ommision from what's going to otherwise be a perfect aircraft after the bugs like the VNAV dive, fuel imbalance etc are squashed. This is the most expensive FS addon I've ever bought and you guys did advertise a fully functional FMC - while I did expect certain things to not function, (winds aloft prediction etc) I certainly didn't expect transitions to not exist since they're a fundamental feature of the DEP/ARR page. PLEASE consider making this feature availiable in a patch for the 600/700 users so we're not forced into buying the 800/900 just to get it. As Shaun said, having 50+ DP and STAR entries for each airport is insane and for me would kill the sense of realism you get from picking a procedure in PIC, DF737, PSS A320 etc...I think a good way to implement it might be to let us define the common portion of the DP/STAR and then list the transitions after it, which the FMC would then load under the main procedure name like it does in the real one. Thanks!Ryan