Just wondering what the proper procedure is for take off? I have a bunch of 737 cockpit video's and have never noticed anyone hitting a to/ga button. It seems they just apply throttle and then fly manually. Here is my procedure:at cleared for takeoff, i turn on FD and engange autothrottle. I set my trim to 5-5.25 depending on what the FMC says. I set V2+15 in the MCP. I rotate at "rotate" and begind to fly. Here is where i run into trouble. The plane seems to pitch very steep. I find myself pushing down full yoke to try to even it out. In order to level out, i engange autopilot and see my VS is at about 4000fpm. I then lower that to 2100fpm and then increase speed in the MCP/AT to 250kts. I then turn on LNAV. I really want to fly manually, but since I am getting this pitch problem I cant. What does everyone do for realistic takeoff procedures? What am i doing wrong?Brad Zimmer

The reason you don't see it is because the TOGA buttons are on the throttle quadrant and are pushed after manualy pushing the throttles forward. Look at the FMA during takeoff for TOGA on your videos. Do not be too much concerned with pitch, be concerned with your speed. Have you not seen South West's 737s pitching up on takeoff? Extreme looking in most cases but like others, V2 + 20-40 is what they are after. Another thing to try out is a R-TO. You have a lot of thrust there so always use a reduced climb rate when conditions call for it (which will be 99% of the time). It's always V2, not V2 + 15 on the MCP. Stand on the throttles @ 40% N1 or there abouts, manually advance the throttles to about 70% N1 and hit the TOGA button, climb V2+20-40 (depending on noise etc), you can engage LNAV very low but this has no effect on you pitch since this is a ROLL mode. At your flaps retraction height (most of the time 1000 AGL BUT not always) retract flaps and speed up. You can now engage VNAV if you desire. It's not perfect but you get the idea.[h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

I'm not very happy with the VNAV on this model, as far as I know in real life VNAV would be engaged fairly early and the F/Ds used for pitch maintaining SID altitude restrictions thoughout while getting you to the best speed as quickly as possible. I don't see why retracting flaps is required, by the time I've retracted all flaps I'm nearly at SID alt so VNAV isn't so useful. I'm sure on the PIC767 it could be engaged immediately, and I know the PSS Airbus is on before you start take-off roll and guides you throughout the whole procedure. Will this be fixed in SU-2?Also on decent tonight with VNAV engaged I left the cockpit briefly with A/P engaged having decended nicely from cruise on the profile all the way down, with a FL150 STAR and 240kts@FL100 restrictions programmed, and came back to find the aircraft approaching stall at 160kts having climbed back to FL290 or so. There was nothing different about the way the FMC was programmed than how I would have programmed the PIC767 - is this a known problem? Surely this will be fixed in SU-2?Other than that I'm very happy, the ILS coupling is supreme, PFD/ND crisp and smooth and sounds excellent, fix these little snags and I'm converted.Dave

Sorry but you are incorrect Dave, check with any 737 Pilot, you do not engage VNAV prior to flaps retraction. VNAV has a total work through in SU2, that being the case, it does not help one who has mis-conceptions on how VNAV should work. These are where the manuals will come in handy for everyone... [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

Randy,I'm certainly not trying to contradict you, but I would appreciate some clarification on the use of VNAV.From my time using the PS1.3 744 sim (yes, I know... different software, different aircraft...) I was given to understand that it was acceptable to arm both LNAV and VNAV whilst the aircraft was still on the ground. On pushing TOGA the FD switched to Takeoff mode and commanded V2+20 at Vr until ACCEL height then automatically switched to VNAV cues.Did I misunderstand the procedures (it certainly worked well in the sim) or is this simply a case of different aircraft = different operating procedures?Many thanks,Chris Kirk

You can ARM LNAV on the ground on the NG. Pitch modes are selected at 400 RA. Many SOPs (I have Vigin Blue) state that VNAV should not be selected untill flaps are fully retracted. There is a good reason for this but I cannot recall exactly why, Ian can jump in here ;). [h4]Best Wishes,Randy J. Smithhttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/196432/winglets_lg.jpg

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Actually on the PMDG 737Ng you do indeed have flaps speed protection with VNAV. As you retract flaps the speed bug increases to the next flaps positon speed..thus making VNAV very useful after takeoff. It commands 250 knots only after flaps are selected up.Regards,Bjorn

In response to the original post here, I too have had the "excessive" pitch on take off. My take-off procedure is to set flaps 5...advance throttles to 40% N1...allow power to stabilise...release parking brake...engage TO/GA...rotate on call...end up at 20+ degrees pitch at around 160-170 knots...I leave things this way until 1000' AGL...reduce flaps...and then begins my fight with the Autopilot (MCP). I first make a real hash with ALT HOLD and/or VS to get the thing leveled out at 5000'. I either start to climb at 4000'+ or just level out. I then further make a hash of getting the thing up to 250KIAS. Here, I am not sure if I should be using the N1 autopilot function or SPEED function. Any help/ideas/useful things to read out there?! As an English flier, I tend to use the MCP to fly by rather than the RTE function of the FMC as I do not have the relevant SIDS/STARS/Navigation Database.Quite a mess as you can see! All advise ideas appreciated...Many regards,Paul Mallows...

>> Sorry but you are incorrect Dave, check with any 737 Pilot,>you do not engage VNAV prior to flaps retraction.>> VNAV has a total work through in SU2, that being the case, it>does not help one who has mis-conceptions on how VNAV should>work. These are where the manuals will come in handy for>everyone...>>Sorry Randy I didn't mean it to sound like I was contradicting the design, I'm merely being lazy and not researching the 737NG before asking the question. I'm an airline engineer with British Airways (hence the lack of NG knowledge, we went for the Airbus shorthaul solution!) and am purely going on previous Boeing experience both real world and MSFS...specifically a B777 systems course I attended many years ago.I've looked up the VNAV section in the course notes and I see at least the B777 does indeed allow VNAV to be armed on the ground, and it engages at 400 feet with flap retraction no problem thereafter, on shedule, with the speed tape prompts. From a quick scan of somewhat less official material from PSS747-400 and PIC767 I see they too can have VNAV engaged before flap retraction. It seems a strange step back from Boeing to remove this functionality. I'll check with some of our Flight Technical guys and see what the general concensus is.Looking foward to SU-2 and as I say, having a lot of fun already with this nice aircraft.

"Actually on the PMDG 737Ng you do indeed have flaps speed protection with VNAV. As you retract flaps the speed bug increases to the next flaps positon speed..thus making VNAV very useful after takeoff. It commands 250 knots only after flaps are selected up."I don't believe this is modelled correctly in PMDG at the moment, Bjorn, so I don't think we should get into the practise of using VNAV. It's not used in the real world, so it shouldn't concern us simmers anyway....I've been told that one of the reasons why VNAV is not used is because the NG's Flight Control Computers don't know what the Leading Edge Flaps are doing. If you have a problem with the LE flaps, the A/P may command a wrong speed (perhaps resulting in an overspeed for the current airplane configuration or even a stall).The NG (and you can't say this enough times) is a completely different aircraft, systems-wise, from 767's and 747-400's and has to be flown differently.Cheers.Ian.

I've actually found I have access to Boeing's Flight Crew Training Manual for the NG via our work system and I see you are spot on with suggestion of later VNAV selection - they don't advise engaging it until 3,000' once all flaps are up and climb is stable. I have solved some of my issues by realising I don't need to select Flap 10 for every takeoff (I was following the tutorial on AVSIM). With Flap 5 or 1 flap retraction is so quick there is more time to smoothly engage VNAV at an appropriate time while manually flying a SID.Thanks to all.Dave

Do not engage Vnav below 3000 feet in the NG's although it can be done. Possibly overspeeding the flaps is one reason and the other is exceeding Class D (Airport)airspace speed limits if your departing in that type of airspace.Floyd