Randy,>> still believe that Mr. E. M. Vangelis (flight model A/P etc) is the best in the businessYes, I fully second that. In that regard, I tend to think the announced 747-400 will be no challenge for him. A pity he doesn't get the chance to show the flight simmers world how an Airbus really flies and behaves on AP ;).But anyway, have to live with that decision.However, the dedication that went into the 737NG down to is just damn gorgeous. I mean details that really mean something, look at e.g. the navigation display with it's curved flight path or the excellent waypoint sequencing (bypass etc.). Maybe some don't notice that, but I do :)Mike

I'm not really up on the details of Airbus FBW, but it is my understanding that Boeing's CWS is pretty similar. SU2's CWS is really well done, and in a sense I think Mr. Vangelis is getting a chance to show how an Airbus really flies and behaves on AP within FS, except he is doing it with a Boeing. PSS's attempt was really, really lame in comparison. It wouldn't hold attitude when you released the stick. SU2's CWS will.Lee Hetherington (KBED)

I thought I'd add my .02 while we're at it. Here's what addon planes I own and what I think of them, kind of grouped into similar product types if possible:Flight1 Iron Knuckles DC-9: Looks beautiful, but I haven't gotten a chance to fly it much. Very complex, old style cockpit. Has a nice VC (I'm not sure if it's clickable with the FS2004 patch) awesome model, but I haven't checked ANY of the flight model.Flight1/Dreamfleet 737-400: It's a BEAUTIFL 2d panel. . .but it's in the hangar until they release their v2 for FS2004. Really state of the art at the time, and could easily be added to high quality visual models. Flight dynamics were great in my opinion.Pilot in Command 767: Most realistic 767 sim you can get. 2D panel only, many different flight models available from different sources, and easily added to a variety of quality Gmax 767's (and even 757's with reduced functionallity--by about 10%). Unfortunately, she's also in the hangar until v2 comes out. PMDG 737NG: Newest addon to my fleet. Awesome aircraft visual model, complex panel, excellent flight dynamics, and great VC. This is the first aircraft that I decided to actually "fly" in simu-land. I've planned a bunch of short hops around the southwest starting at KLAX -> KPHX -> KLAS -> KABQ -> KDEN. It's been the best as far as hand flying and complete autopilot. Oh, I also test flew the PMDG -600 in 0/0 with a dual A/P Cat III. . .it put me down RIGHT ON THE NUMBERS. . .too cool. . .too cool. My favorite plane!PSS 777, 747: Designed for FS2000. . .really great 2d panels at the time. . .and only company to do 777 and 747 with pretty complete FMCs. Again, hangared until v2 for FS2004 comes out. PSS A3XX series: Way different type of plane. Airbusses have no throttles! I think they did a wonderful job of modelling it within the limits of FS. Patched versions all work fine for me. Not as complex as other addons though. PSS Dash-8: Fun plane to fly! Less complicated FMC, great dynamics (AFAIK) awesome VC and visual model. RFP 747 Classics: VERY COMPLEX!!!! Fun to start, but I've never completed a flight in it! :-) Don't have time time that I used when I was in college! SSW A310: Hangared until I install patch 1.3 Looks beautiful tho, and has an awesome VC. Also a VERY complex aircraft. . .(A310's are old tho, so it is fitting!)If you have money to burn, try 'em all! Each has it's good points. . .I'm not too picky about bad points, because I recognize the limitations of our sim. Regards,DrewKLGB

>> I think Mr. Vangelis is getting a chance to show how an Airbus really flies and behaves on AP within FS, except he is doing it with a BoeingI'm curious to try the CWS and have to admit I don't know very much about CWS other than it commands a constant pitch and bank and that's it.With the Airbus FBW among other things your sidestick deflection commands a certain G-loading (pitch, elevators) or roll rate (roll, ailerons, spoilers) regardless of airspeed. Pitch always kept in autotrim.However, you can make a simple test if CWS does it "FBW like". Command a certain vertical speed. Now push throttle forward or extract/retract flaps. Does the plane accelerate or decelerate ONLY and does not change the vertical speed ? >> PSS's attempt was really, really lame in comparisonHow right you are. But as you see from the other comments here, people do rarely care. The publisher tells "realistic FBW" and "tested by real Airbus pilots" and almost everyone believes they have an Airbus. Others (320PIC) are better regarding FBW, but have a lot of other hickups. So in FS you fly around with Airbusses with no or half-baked FBW and performance accuracy somewhere in the desert. APPR modes that go down to VAPP immediately instead to go to green dot speed first, Airbusses that fly around with a constant VLS regardless of level flight or steep turn and much too slow Autothrust systems. Add that up and you have planes that would be a threat to modern aviation. But enough with my Airbus blues. I have waited a long time to get a plane like the PMDG 737NG in a flight simulation, probably I have to wait the same time again to get an Airbus.Mike

>However, you can make a simple test if CWS does it "FBW like".>Command a certain vertical speed. Now push throttle forward or>extract/retract flaps. Does the plane accelerate or decelerate>ONLY and does not change the vertical speed ?OK, no it isn't like that. It holds attitude very well though. I don't believe there is any notion of holding a vertical speed in CWS.--Lee

I'm not really sure though if the FS engine offers any way to do FBW at all. Would require a really fast Autotrim system.Maybe Vangelis knows. Or hopefully he tries to find out after the 744 ;)Mike

Yes, but PMDG's CWS does "autotrim" in the sense that you can change speed, flaps, etc., and it will hold the attitude fixed, which clearly requires trim changes. It just doesn't hold V/S in CWS.Lee Hetherington (KBED)

Interesting discussion, except the guy who said he'd never fly for real in an Airbus :-roll. I've met real life pilots who said they'd turn down job offers on an Airbus as they preferred Boeings. Most of them are still unemployed, so 'nuff said.I've been a fan of the 737NG and was really looking forward to SU2 correcting the little nuisance bugs which I had noticed after completing a jet orientation course in a real 737 sim.But I'm now in the lucky position of soon starting a real life A320 type rating conversion, and found myself buying the PSS A320 add-on to get a head start. I've been impressed with it in terms of systems and start-up procedures, but flight model inaccuracies and FS2004 incompatibility have let it down.That said, it's certainly allowed me to get a good introduction to the Airbus way of using the FMCG and autoflight system, which is pretty good for only

Lol I said that if given the choice I would prefer a Boeing. That only means I am a fan. Not much more than that. I have flown in several A320's and had no complaints about the experience. ___Josh

Ahhh OK Josh, good to hear it! :-cool

Mike,I agree completely. Actually, I'm a LONG time Airbus fan and was fanatical when PSS originally released the A320 series. I suffered through the PIC A320 and so far and less than impressed with the A330-340 release from PSS. Not bashing, but my expectations were high with this product because, as you say, when PSS A320 was released, it was at the top of its game, right along with PIC 767.I also own the Dreamfleet B737 "Classic" airplane and find this an excellent package as well. HOWEVER, when PMDG released the NG series, I thought I'd give it a try. After all, It had the glass cockpit and FMC that I love with the 'bus.I can say with all honesty that the PMDG 737 NG is THE BEST add on I've purchased for FS PERIOD!! I'm hooked on flying this bird and can't wait to get the SU2 on board!BTW, how do you like the Flight Operations SW? I'm thinking of adding this to my collection.Aaron