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Guest RollsRoyce

PMDG 744 Sounds

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Guest Callmecapt

Just to add something...How do you know what kind of microphone was used just by watching the dvd and listening to the sounds?That's truly amazing Michael. Either you work for VA and know Captain Alan Carter personally and he told you, or you work for ITVV, or you were in some little corner of the cockpit and could see the microphones personally. Either that, or you could possibly have the most sensitive ears on the planet.I'm impressed.

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>Just to add something...How do you know what kind of>microphone was used just by watching the dvd and listening to>the sounds?Because I use my head ... I see the scenes and listen to the sounds where they come from. For example the camera points in captain's face but we still hear sounds around including outside air flow. Or the takeoff scene where camera zoom's on first officer's face - clearly if we hear his voice very well we should also hear the engine sound which is coming from the same exact direction (assuming your theory of directional microphones). Or numerous 'wide angle' views with multiple sounds around the cabin. There is simply no evidence here that microphones used in this DVD had a narrow focus or muffled some external sounds. But I thank you for your undeniable proof that you own the product. ;-)Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg


Michael J.

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Guest dt1951

Here, here, on realistic sounds in the cockpit. I truly hope they make those cockpit sounds more realistic than in the general FS community where everyone seems to put the engines with them in the cockpit, rather than where they belong.Dan Ward

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Guest RollsRoyce

Well this debate is getting out of hand.As a side issue, I did (slightly) think Michals responses were a bit hostile but I do not regard this as a significant issue of worry. Regardless, I have ITVV's 744 Rolls Royce Cathay video and their Virgin 742 PW video and on takeoff, the engines are noticeably loud. When compared to traditional, so called "realistic" FS soundsets that aim to portay the engines as being 5 miles behind you, the videos are much much louder. This is NOT a subjective evaluation unless some of us have significant hearing disabilities (apologies if you do ). The older Classic 747 engines are slightly louder than their newer counterparts but only slightly. Rolls Royce engines are traditionally by far the loudest. I cannot say anything for GE engines but they may be quieter. The fact that they all produce the same thrust does NOT mean they all SOUND THE SAME. There are significant combustion and size differences between engines and their indidividual sounds exemplify this. Nevertheless, even slight differences in decibels will be apparent in the cockpit also.As far as the microphone discussion. I will say that the ITVV videos do show scenes from ahead of the pilots by way of a small camera mounted in the middle of the cokpit right at the front. I would sufficiently assume that the microphone was at that point, pointing towards the front of the aircraft. Whilst switching views between that camera and the one behind the pilots, there was hardly a difference in sound quality. Can you imagine what the cockpit would sound like with the microphone FACING the engines? Regardless, such a discussion is unhelpful. If you want realism you talk to 747 pilots who fly the real thing, not ATR pilots (sorry for any apparent hostility here, there is none)I just hope that the sounds are realistic and correspond accordingly with the amount of throttle applied. For example, whilst applying full takeoff thrust and then applying the subsequent climb thrust element at 1500ft AGL, the sound and aicraft throttle will provide a noticeable delay between your physical interaction (applying climb thrust physically from your joystick throttle) to actually the aircraft aplying climb thrust in the panel. This seems a product-wide issue with FS itself.Another issue is that once reaching cruise altitude, the engines have significantly less air to play with resulting in lesser noise, so I will concede that at cruise altitude their presence in the cockpit and business class is non-existent.Sorry for the long post. I will say that I do not have the 744 Virgin DVD but was slightly surprised to hear Michals unfortunate inability to distinguish which engines VS's 744's use in spite of the pictures on the cover. Are you sure you know what level of realism you want?Bilal

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Goran and Michael,I also own this video and I also heard the sounds of the cockpit. First thing to say, I completed SAE audio engineer training and been working couple of years actively as live and studio audio engineer and producer.Secondly, I agree with Michael. First of all, it would be utterly stupid and very inpractical to use directional mics. In my opinion, they used two cardioid mics where the camera stands, probably in XY position (or something similar). Cuz in some moments, you can hear clearly as the panorama changes when a pilot moves his head left or right (this is clear characteristic of XY technique). If it were directional micros, there would be no stereo picture whatsoever, and any other sounds would be muffled (for example, when pilot moves his head out of the field of view of the microphone. Besides, I don't believe airline would alove mounting of long directional mics ub front of the pilots (dir. mics are usually longer).So, I think there are simply two mini cameras just below the glareshield and above them there's probably a small set of cardioid mics in XY position (one above each other, usually 90 degree open-corner).As Michael stated, no sounds appear muffled, which again shows, no directional mics.So (Goran sir), stop acting like kids and grow up.

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Guest Callmecapt

>Goran and Michael,>>Secondly, I agree with Michael. First of all, it would be>utterly stupid and very inpractical to use directional mics.>In my opinion, they used two cardioid mics where the camera>stands, probably in XY position (or something similar). Cuz in>some moments, you can hear clearly as the panorama changes>when a pilot moves his head left or right (this is clear>characteristic of XY technique). If it were directional>micros, there would be no stereo picture whatsoever, and any>other sounds would be muffled (for example, when pilot moves>his head out of the field of view of the microphone. Besides,>I don't believe airline would alove mounting of long>directional mics ub front of the pilots (dir. mics are usually>longer).>So, I think there are simply two mini cameras just below the>glareshield and above them there's probably a small set of>cardioid mics in XY position (one above each other, usually 90>degree open-corner).>As Michael stated, no sounds appear muffled, which again>shows, no directional mics.>So (Goran sir), stop acting like kids and grow up.Well I have no audio engineering certificates, nor am I an audio "expert". But in saying that, I don't think anyone can say for sure what techniques were used unless they were actually there. Word Not Allowed, your opinion is just that...an opinion. You obviously have more experience than i do in sound but you cannot guarantee that your opinion is correct. The camera's are fibre optic type. You can see one in the Cathay video just on top of the MCP. However, with regards to your "grow up" quote, if you search the forum for posts where i reply to michael's posts or vice versa, you will see where my frustration stems from. It's not just me getting frustrated at what he said to me in this post, it's an accumulation of things he says to me and others which can be quite offensive, rude and disrespectful. All of which are totally uncalled for as I nor anyone else have ever given Michael a reason for such arrogant behaviour.This is a support forum and I come here for that as well as any other interesting things about PMDG products, since I own all of them, I like to know anything new about them. I don't come here to be talked down to.Goran

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Goran,I know Michael J. from many posts and respect him for his knowledge about many things, and occasionally we've been helping each other out. I haven't read all his posts he ever wrote, but I also never noticed any rudness and disrespectfullness. His answers are in my opinion pretty straightforward and clear. Exactly how they should be...If you'd like, post some links to these arrogant posts, please.Otherwise, I must notice that you are quite new on these forums and still might need some time of "adapting" to (comparing Michael J's 4000 posts, mine 1000 and yours 200).Besides, personal disputes should be done over email, so basically, if you have a real problem with one person on the boards, for God's sake, write him an email, and tell him whatever is on your heart. Don't do it over the boards, it's boring to read.OK, and about the video: I didn't know which cameras those are, it's nice to know, thanks :-) I cannot guarantee that it's correct, but it is very probably and almost for sure correct :-) I have been doing ear training for these kinds of stuff for some time and I (hopefully) can recognize what is what :-)

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Guest Callmecapt

KostaCheck your avsim inboxGoran

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Alex,Although there isnt a menu option to physically disable the cockpit/cabin announcements in Level-D, you can work around it by de-selecting the PA button on the Audio Selector panel. If you click on another button at the top of the panel, such as VHF-L for example, you wont hear any of the above announcements either on the ground or during flight. This should make your cargo hauling a lot more realistic.Hope this helps mate.


Lee Holland

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