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Guest alpha2003

Limitations etc

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Guest alpha2003

Hi i am interested in documents about the limitations of the Flap Speeds like maneuverspeed stall speeds etc.Do anybody know where i can find such a document?2. I have a question about landing.SO how do to it correctly? Do i have to influence the V/S via the thrust lever and change the speed via the the yoke?GreetingsMarkus

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Well I guess it depends on how you're doing your approaches.. but.. yes primarily you influence the speed and the rate of descent using the throttle.. I usually land manually in the bird.. she handles well and it's much easier if you have rudder pedals..Before your descent.. get your chart out.. and find the approach chart for the runway your landing at.. in those charts there are often reference heights.. take for example.. EGLL runway 27L:D8.8 LON (D7.5 ILS) - Height 2500 feet...D5.4 LON (D4.0 ILS) - Height 1400 feet...D1.0 ILS - Height 450 feet...Dx.x LON is the distance to the London Beacon in NMDx.x ILS is the distance to the ILS threshold in NMThat's about 300 feet per mile.. with an ascent rate of about 700 feet per minute assuming you're about 160knots on approach.. at 4 miles (D4.0 ILS) you'll slow to your final approach speed depending on your weight.If you want to make sure you're on target.. set a FIX in your FMC for LON.. and put in the distance markers for 8.8, 5.4 miles.. you'll get a good feel if you're on target or not.. As you pass your markers on the ND.. think to yourself.. "2,500 feet.. 700fpm".. then.. "1,400 feet.. 700fpm"... "threshold.. aim.. 50 feet".. Keep the nose up and let the aircraft do the descending itself.. Use the throttles to control the descent and maintain your VREF or 160 knots.. I try to keep a bit over VREF probably 10 knots initially.. and only let the aircraft slow to VREF + 5 when I hear "FIVE HUNDRED"... If it's windy.. I keep it a bit higher than that.. Keep the nose up and use the yoke sparingly.. and gently.. Most new budding pilots tend to yank it all over the place and end up banking heavily in the latter stages.. NOT GOOD.. As you pass 500 feet.. and reduce speed SLIGHTLY.. keep the nose up.. if you're slightly off target with the runway begin to correct with rudder as you get very close.. Be aware that the rudder will give you some drag though.. so it will effect speed if you're a bit too rudder happy.. so keep your eye on your speed.. Cross the threshold of the runway at about 50 feet.. and let her SLOWLY touch onto the tarmac herself.. taking the power away at about 20 feet.. and flare to cushion the landing..If you balloon or float which is something I used to do.. just hold it at idle power and at the flare pitch.. use the rudder to keep straight.. and so long as you're not too high (20 feet or so).. deploy your spoilers a bit.. that will put you down quite quick.. so you might get a bit of a bump.. but it'll be ok...If you're doing crosswinds.. straighten up fairly late.. you can do it pretty much just before you're about to flare.. Just bring her round quite quick with the rudder and put her down..If at any point in the final stages you are descending too fast.. use the THROTTLE.. don't pitch up.. the throttle will reduce the descent rate very VERY effectively.. at those low landing weights.. if you use too much you'll start climbing.. just give her a nudge with some throttle and she'll respond to you pretty quick.. Once down.. deploy spoilers.. make sure throttle is idle.. let the nose wheel come down.. use the rudder to keep straight.. deploy reverse thrust.. as you see fit.. verify wheel brakes are operating.... Some say to deploy reverse thrust AFTER the nose wheel is down.. I've seen many aircraft do it with the nose gear in the air.. The A380 being one of them! Once you hit 80 knots.. idle engines.. and at that point I switch to manual braking.. using rudder to steer.. once below 30 knots.. I stop braking altogether.. and let her slow rolling and then leave at the required high speed exit..Hope that helps.. it's my technique.. if there are any comments.. I'd be interested in them too..CheersCraig


Craig Read, EGLL

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I have a small question. Realistically, what is a normal vertical speed at touch down? With all these addons and VA ACARS out there giving me this info, I usually average around 300fpm with the occasional 500 or 600. What do real world pilots manage to pull off?Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png


Ryan Gamurot
 

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300 feet per minute sounds ok to me.. the flare will kill the vertical speed as the nose rises it'll act like a brake and obviously ensure that the main gear gets the initial load. But the idle engine power should prevent a climb in the flare.... I'd say.. 300 feet per minute is reasonable (5 feet per second).. it might even be less at actual touchdown.. at about 50 feet you a good few seconds before touch down.. even at a 600fpm approach.. you've got 5 seconds from the threshold.. which is really a very long time to reduce vertical speed in the flare to something really gentle. Pulling up the nose at 20 - 30 feet won't really effect the time you touch down as obviously it will take a second or two for the aircraft to react in VS terms.. all the momentum and power is for the glide in.. and with no thrust it won't climb.. so as you lift the nose.. vs will start to drop a lot just before the wheels touch the surface.... if you look at your radio alt.. you'll see it do it.. 50... 40.. 30... (FLARE).. 20.. 10.. then it slows.. a bit in the last 10 feet... probably to something like 300fpm or even below..I'm sure the undercarriage can take 600fpm.. I imagine 600fpm will be one heck of a bump though without a flare and not particularly good for the aircraft.... 10 feet per second is quite a descent rate to hit tarmac with an aircraft 100 tons plus.. I'd be interested in other peoples opinions..CheersCraig


Craig Read, EGLL

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Guest Robin.B

I would say the most comfortable for passengers is around 200-250fpm. 300-350fpm is a fairly firm landing, and could be used in rainy weather. Above that is a big bump, and not comfortable.Best Regards,Robin Bilgil

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Thanks for that. That's why I love the GPWS. I can keep my eyes out the window instead of looking back and forth to the radio altimeter. Usually at the call of 30 I start idling the engines and at 20, begin the flare. It only works in calm weather with no wake though. Regarding the wake in FS, how should I deal with it? I'm guessing in real life it doesn't cause the 744 to bounce that much but in FS I go all over the place. Should I aim to come in a bit high?Ryan GamurotLucky to live Hawai'ihttp://www.virtualpilots.org/signatures/vpa296.png


Ryan Gamurot
 

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