737NG FUEL PLANNING. ANY PILOT THERE? Need Help!!!

[Guest mia]

Hi all!I want to know if this 737NG fuel planning is correct.I planned a trip from Concepci

[DF9AA 0]

Hi Santiago,I am not a pilot but worked nearly 45 years with the airlines :here my planning ( btw 737NG are not all alike - 736 73G 738 (w ) and 739 )For 738 - your trip SCIE to SCEL with altn SCIETrip: 3600 lbscont.: 5% 180 - it all began with 10 %, then reduced to 7,5 % now 5 %recently I saw a RW flight plan with 3 % !Altn.: 3400 Final res: 2400 for 30 minsMin.Ldg. Fuel : 2000 lbs ( ONLY to be used in an emergency - supposed to keep the fuel pumps running )Taxi: all depends on the traffic situation at dep airport and distance to runway but with 500 lbs you should be OKExtra : anything up to max ldg wt - will be used in RW for tankering - which means if the fuel at dest is significantly more expensive - fill her up to MAX LDG WTMin. T/O Fuel : 11580 lbs PLUS taxi 500 lbs and possbl EXTRAKarl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[Guest mia]

Karl, Thankyou very much for your reply. So, til now, the contingecy will be 5% instead of 10%, probably then will be 3%.3 more questions :) About Final reserve. Is that value (2400 lbs) used by any company? and when will I use that?, for Holdings?About Trip Fuel. this value should be corrected by aloft winds. Shouldn

[Guest ColdBear]

Santiago,Final reserve is for 30min of flying in holding config/speed at 1500feet.The Trip fuel should be corrected for known winds and thats the same with altenate fuelmartin

[DF9AA 0]

Hi Santiago,this will be a lengthly excursion into flight planning - btw the US-Americans have a slightly different approach to this . . . I am not sure about the Canadiens - I am talking about the European - German way.( see PMDG manuals re flight planning in the US ! )I remember a big discussion in my former company about cont. fuel for long haul flights, since in 99 out of 100 flights you DO NOT need this fuel and each kg/lb you carry around you increase your fuel flow ! This was during the period with 7,5 %, apparently it is reduced now to 5 % and if I read the RW flight plan correct it is now reduced to 3 % with a theoretical landing at an earlier airport - it was a flt pln to the Neareast and cont.fuel at 3% was only calculated for a theoretical landing at HECA - Cairo.An example : For todays winds a flight from EDDT to KSFO with a 747 you carry as cont. fuel ( 5 % ) around 13500 lbs or 6150 kgs !! You can save a lot if you plan 3% to Winnipeg - my estimate would be 4500 lbs or 2000 kgs less . . .the burn figures for this flight would be reduced from 270600 to 268500 lbs or from 123000 to 121900 kgs - this is a figure where the bookkeepers of an airline will get big eyes . . .Final reserves is always taken in minutes and then calculated with FF of LRC ( long range cruise - a little less than normal cruise ).As the word FINAL means, it will be used as FINAL RESERVE - in case you arrive at an airport with one runway and this runway is blocked by any reason, you obviuosly cannot land. Unless you have more than the minimum diversion fuel you HAVE to divert to your alternate airport. The min.div.fuel is : Fuel to altn and final res. Lets stick to the KSFO flight : I did it yesterday with a 747-400F - plan figures wereburn : 128.000 kgs plus altn./min.res.fuel 10400 kgs plus cont fuel of 7400 kgs - so I planned to arrive in SFO with 17800 kgs of fuel. So in case I could not land at SFO I had to divert to my altn if I had only 10400 kgs which is very seldom the case since normally you do not use your cont. fuel. Possible holding at DESTINATION will be done with the fuel you have in excess to your min.div.fuel. The FINAL RES is used for any possible problems at arrival at your alternate airport . . .The alternate fuel is also calculated with winds to the altn. airport - in my self-created flight planning tool I disregard this, but its a good idea for improvement. For the SFO flight I used OAK as altn. and this would be no case to calculate winds, it would only be a couple of lbs/kgs, but if you have to use an altn. like LAX ( roughly 200 NM ) it means a difference with 50kts head or tail wind . . .The trip fuel is calculated with the winds aloft - also here time x FF per min or hour !In case you are interested in my flightplanning tool send me a PM with your e-mail adress and I send you a copy - be aware its based on EXCEL 2003 and you must have this office program - I don't know if it works with "WORKS" or any other spreadsheet program ! Allow me a couple of days since I have to rewrite the readme file . . .Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[Guest mia]

Thanks both for answering! Now i know exactly how to make a very good planning!!!Thanks for your time. Pd.- Karl, if you know what airline is using 3% of contingency fuel please let me know! :) ohh, by the way, what is exactly the purpose of cotingency fuel?

[Guest ColdBear]

Contingency is a sort of extra fuel for other winds/another route by ATC etc. It's fuel that you can use doing the flightMartin

[Guest mia]

Thanks!!!, and the last two questions :) First: Do we have to put also an ALTN contingency fuel too? as we did with the Trip contingeny fuel?. And the second one is about the FRSV fuel. I read somewhere that Air Europa uses 1900 Kgs = 4188 lbs. I

[DF9AA 0]

Hi,1. NO2. Looks OKKarl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof "" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Fosterhttp://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpg

[phil747fan 14]

>Hi Santiago,>>I am not a pilot but worked nearly 45 years with the airlines>:>here my planning ( btw 737NG are not all alike - 736 73G 738>(w ) and 739 )>For 738 - your trip SCIE to SCEL with altn SCIE>Trip: 3600 lbs>cont.: 5% 180 - it all began with 10 %, then reduced to 7,5 %>now 5 %>recently I saw a RW flight plan with 3 % !>Altn.: 3400 >Final res: 2400 for 30 mins>Min.Ldg. Fuel : 2000 lbs ( ONLY to be used in an emergency ->supposed to keep the fuel pumps running )>Taxi: all depends on the traffic situation at dep airport and>distance to runway but with 500 lbs you should be OK>Extra : anything up to max ldg wt - will be used in RW for>tankering - which means if the fuel at dest is significantly>more expensive - fill her up to MAX LDG WT>Min. T/O Fuel : 11580 lbs PLUS taxi 500 lbs and possbl EXTRA>>Karl-Heinz - EDDI/THF " Tempelhof ">" The mother of all airports " - Sir Norman Foster>>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpgKarl-Heinz,the 3% or 15 min is in use since a long time on ICAO standards ... if you have a ERA (enroute Alternate airport) but of course you need to met min weather and runway vis and ceiling as usual ... about Canadians we use CARs rules as FAR or JAR .. they re similar to European standard except for flying to USA Mexico or Caribbean but depending on Airlines certificate as usual ... no to answer on original poster ...the -900 burns around 15 kgs/min taxi and 105 kg/hour for APU(on ground) as the BBJthe -700 burns around 15 kgs/min taxi and 120 kg/hour for APU(on ground)so : 500 ----- = 226.75 kgs 2.205226.75/15 kgs/ min = around 15 min of taxi time ....