No adventures, no training, no modules???? PLEASE HELP

[Guest]

Just bought PIC 767 and I cannot get into it as most of the features do not exist. I'm running FS 2002 PIC 767 patched to 2002.Where are the adventures? None listed just some starting situations - ie Approach, Take-off etc. 8 in all.There is no training module, nothing to take you through the check-lists. Really missing this part which is mentioned in the reviews and specs. Where is it?There is nothing listed under adventures - No 767 PIC Failures by level. No 767 PIC Random Failures. Where are they? Or should they be?And the manuals that are supposed to be great are hopeless. There is no starting manual running you through from start up to features. Just this lousy 16 page printed "pilot's manual" which is hopeless. The pdf manuals are all for specific aspects of the systems, checklists. Fine but you have to be able to start somewhere and there needs to be a run-through manual. It does not exist.So all you get for PIC 767 are 8 starting situations and about three flights London to Rome, Paris to Moscow and that's it. Really not a good start. Can only think there is a problem with my installation.Training should be a massive part of any high learning curve sim. With no adventures, no modules for learning, almost no flights what is the point of getting into the FMC manual?Please help me if I am totally wrong and you guys have found all these features.Thanks

[Tabs 2,790]

The adventures don't work in FS2002 - the Failures can be found in the PIC menu along with all the options for the panel.I found the two manuals to be very good at explaining the plane's systems. They do tell you how to pre-flight the plane, start the engines, etc... and the FMC guide covers just about everything possible with it. (you could literally use that guide to program the real one)There are quite a few tutorial documents that people have made - let me see if I can dig a few of them up for you.

[Guest]

Hi John,There are more than 300 pages of manuals in pdf format on the CD-ROM, including pilot manual, fmc manual, normal and abnormal checklists. The first point of the learning curve is of course reading these manuals, the normal checklists first. The 8 starting situations allow you to go the the corresponding checklist phase.This forum is also a way to help you to take a good start.But frankly, the Pilot's manual (written by Eric Ernst, AA B767 Pilot) on the CD is really complete and detailled with practical examples which should help you a lot.The adventures you mention were a small part (in comparison with the whole product) of PIC under FS2000. The box you bought is indeed the FS2000 version of PIC, and the adventures are no more compatible under FS2002. Nevertheless, the *free* patch we provided for FS2002 includes a lot of new features, especially new failures and a new random failure engine. Thus, this new failure engine (access though PIC menu->failures->define) replaces the old PIC random failure adventure module.And the last news about PIC under FS2002 is the full compatibility with Aerosoft's 747 MCP (and other hardwares shortly), which will be provided through another *free* patch in the next weeks (days). Regards, Laurent Crenier_____________________________767PIC Panel co-designer

[Guest KenG]

This is what you need to do to get your adventures back. Uninstall PIC, install FS2000, and reinstall PIC in FS2000.You realize that PIC was developed and released for FS2000, not FS2002? Well, the adventure files in FS2002 are different from those in FS2000. Therefore, the ones that come with PIC will not work. If someone at Wilco wants to completely redo them for FS2002 (very doubtful) they you may see them again. Otherwise, you aren't missing a lot.The failures are there in the PIC Menu. If that menu selection is not present then you do have something wrong with your installation.There is no walkthrough or "getting started" tutorial. Many people have learned the complexities of PIC without it. You have to read the manuals, all 200+ pages, to get a good understanding of what is going on and how things work. That's how it works in the real world and we like to keep things somewhat realistic. If you have problems and don't understand something in the manual or with the panel, ask in this forum and we'll do our best to help out.The draw of PIC is its realism, not its ease of use. If it were easy, it wouldn't be realistic. It will take you a while to understand all that's in PIC and you may need to read the manuals several times (or parts of it) to fully understand it all. The manuals, if you read them along with the checklists, will tell you exactly what you need to do from startup to shutdown, including what to do if you have a failure of some component/system. It's up to you to read and comprehend the information.And what's the point of getting into the FMC manual? Well, if I have to answer that, perhaps PIC is not the product for you. If you don't want to learn how to program the FMC, you will be missing a LARGE portion of what is so great about PIC.

[Guest]

Thanks for all the replies. I suppose I am just not used to this kind of software add-on where you are litterally faced with a mountainous learning curve. Just because I've never used this kind of add-on (nearest I got would be Captain Speaking on ATC) doesn't mean I don't want to learn - I do. It's just that facilitating learning, of even the most complex subjects, is an art and software is the ideal forum for this. An example of excellent documentation - interactive with working buttons and pop ups would be Yannick Lavigne's FALCON 50 CAEA- FS2002 pro version - 1970's Dassault Aviation business jet.I am trying to make constructive critism. Such as an oral and textual walk through of operating procedures spoken through the co-pilot, whilst you are sitting in the plane would be both realistic (this is what you do in a real flight simulator with your instructor) and perfectly simple to program. I would rather pay more for a product like this with one bound printed manual that goes from a-z and learning and tutorial elements built into the program. I just don't see why that would detract from the realism. Again thank's for all your thoughful replies. Back to reading the 5 pdfs!John

[Guest KenG]

>I am trying to make constructive critism. Such as an oral >and textual walk through of operating procedures spoken >through the co-pilot, whilst you are sitting in the plane >would be both realistic (this is what you do in a real >flight simulator with your instructor) and perfectly simple >to program. I would rather pay more for a product like this >with one bound printed manual that goes from a-z and >learning and tutorial elements built into the program. >I just don't see why that would detract from the realism. Well John, that would be up to Wilco, not the PIC Team at this point. The PIC Team provided the patch for FS2002 free while throwing in some improvements to boot, although they didn't have to. A lot of work went into that patch and I was priveledged enough to help out and see how these great guys work. To add what you want would require a bit more effort than you suggest, I think. The PIC Team just couldn't afford to invest that much time on the adventures (for which there was no SDK) and not get anything from it. They've got other things to work on. I doubt Wilco will be up for it either, seeing as their efforts are being directed to new projects.Everyone who has become proficient with PIC has done so in the manner we described (i.e., reading the manuals). It is a very steep learning curve. My first complex aircraft addon of any kind was PIC. I was sure I'd never get all the systems worked out, but I did. The manuals are well written but require most people to re-read them in order to absorb all the information. If what you described had been developed, I'm afraid that too many people would have relied on it and not the manuals and would have missed out on the finer detail which are required for proper handling of this simulator. The instructed lessons would need to be very long and go into a lot of detail for you to truly understand all that's going on. And that would be just to get the engines started. It wouldn't be all that informative if it just said, "Push this button, then that one, click over here and here and here, then flip that switch." The manuals may seem tiresome and confusing at first. Reading them may feel inefficient as well. However, once you've gotten through them and studied the info provided, it will all start clicking. BTW, if you were getting a real type-rating in a 767, the first part of the training would be reading all the information manuals, on your own, without and instructor in sight. You wouldn't be allowed behind the controls of the simulator (much less the real plane itself) until you could prove you'd absorbed and assimilated all that information. That's pretty similar to what PIC requires.

[wchafe 0]

Hi John. The problem is that you are in the minority when you say that you would be willing to pay for in-depth tutorial style documentation. This is the reason you don't tend to see a lot of documentation in products these days. The vast majority of people will only pay $30~$40 for a FS addon. We chose to put most of our efforts into an accurate and complete simulation of the aircraft.There is no doubt that there is an enormous amount of things to learn for someone new to something as complex as a 767. Creating an oral and textual walk through of operating procedures would NOT be "perfectly simple". It would take a great deal of effort, time, and disk space. If you think you could learn much of what you need to do with even an hour long tutorial then you haven't even begun to grasp the depth of this simulation. With all due respect to the Falcon 50, which is a wonderful plane/panel, it is nowhere near as complex as PIC767's simulation of the Boeing 767.You will get there, and you will enjoy the process, if you are willing to put the effort into it. But it will not happen quickly, with or without tutorials. You'll find a lot of very knowledgable and dedicated PIC767 experts in this forum who will be happy to help you as long as they see that you are making some effort to find answers to your questions before posting them in the forum.Regards,Wade

[Guest]

Hi Laurent,You mentioned that PIC new version will be fully compatible with 747MCP, does this include the other functions in the panel apart from the MCP functions? If not will there be any chance to develop such software to help sim builders?thanks,mofa