FMC Question

[Guest]

I'm new to 767PIC and trying to understand the FMC programming. As an exercise I'm trying to program the following SID for YBBN:RWY 19:. Track 196 degrees (runway heading). After passing 3 DME and after passing 600ft turn LEFT. Track 140 degrees. Intercept and track BN R-170. At 10 DME BN intercept and track LAV R-008 to LAVI think I've got the radial intercept part nailed but can't figure out how to program the specified tracks (eg 196 and 140) nor how to specify the DME distances.From reading the manual it appears that you can't program a specific track, this must be done manually by using the HDG SEL feature of the AFDS rather than LNAV mode. Am I right in this assumption?How would you program the 3 DME and 10 DME points?Thanks in advance for any suggestions.Adrian

[Tabs]

Ok I'll try to explain how I would do this in two possible ways:The real 767 FMC supports conditional "psuedo" waypoints. These are entries such as that second item - after 3 DME (condition 1) and passing 600ft (condition 2) turn left and track 140

[Guest]

Ryan, thanks for the detailed reply. I've glossed over it but will digest it at a more reasonable hour. I'll check out your SIDS at the navdata site also.BTW, the example I gave is a real-life departure procedure. In real-life would this be flown completely by the FMC and/or autopilot or would there be some hand flying involved?Thanks againAdrian

[Guest]

If the SID is complicated (i.e. with multiple height restrictions, speed restrictions, etc.) than pilots will typically engage LNAV and VNAV. But, there are also some pilots that prefer to hand fly the SIDs. Mostly just pilot preference.-twilky

[Tabs]

Yeah a real 767 pilot will have a choice because the FMC will be capable of flying those conditional waypoints...

[Guest HPSOV]

In regards to handflying or using the autopilot.The choice is entirely up to the pilot on the day, the majority of guys will hand fly to atleast flaps up, if not a bit higher. Generally the autopilot will be engaged at 5000-10000ft.However remember that when handflying (ie not having an autopilot engaged), that the AFDS modes MUST be set up as though an autopilot were enagaged, to give you valid FD commands to follow.What I mean is you will use exactly the same modes (LNAV, VNAV, Hdg Sel, FL CH, etc) regardles of whether an autopilot is engaged or not.

[teropa]

HPSOV,How often real 767(757) pilots fly the plane on raw data, for example a SID with no FMC programmed LNAV path that F/D makes you follow, but manual tuning of nav aids/radials and no F/D in use ?I sometimes feel a bit guilty to fly (albeit by hand) the F/D commanded path, and have thought to myself, that I would be in bit of a trouble if I had to navigate my way out of a big airport with only raw data. I have no trouble handflying the beast on raw data as such, that's enjoyable, but to navigate a complex SID or STAR without the assistance of F/D would be nightmare to begin with...thanks,Tero

[Guest HPSOV]

Easy answer is never!There is no reason why you would ever have to do this, and its too much of a safety risk to ever justify doing if you didn't have to.If the FMC failed, or you lost the loaded SID for some reason you would require radar vectors, you wouldn't compromise your, or another aircrafts safety trying to fly (some often very complicated SID's) on raw data only.Another factor is that very few SID's can be entirely flown by reference to VOR's and NDB's, the majority have waypoints, which would require the use of the FMC.

[teropa]

HPSOV,thanks for the reply!!I no longer feel that guilty :).Next it's the DASH8 with no FMC and tuning the damn radios by hand... a nightmare. But isn't the real DASH8 equipped with an FMC, so I guess this is again tougher for us simmers =)Tero

[Guest]

So an airplane without a FMC would in reality "always" request radar vectors for the SID after takeoff? That would be a big workload on the ATC because (correct me if I am wrong) most of the commuter airlines with turboprops wil not have a FMC.Perhaps a real life turboprop commuter airline pilot can clarify?

[teropa]

Hi,IRL turboprops do fly SIDs and STARs just like other bigger planes, only the SIDs and STARs are different from the ones that jets use.I would imagine, that they are just flown with the help of nav-aids, without FMC (but often with autoflight enabled) At least Helsinki-Vantaa (EFHK) SIDs for jets AND turboprops are simple enough to be flown by basic nav-aids.regards,Tero

[Guest Martin]

Many turboprops do have an FMC, or if not a more simple GPS or perhaps RNAV system (I think).Martin767 fetishistIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing