Engines won't start inflight!

[marcom]

Hi everyone!Is anyone else experiencing this? I can't start the left engine if I kill it in flight.Just to confirm, here's the procedure I use:If the blue bleed memo appears on the EICAS, I make sure all the isolation valves are closed (ie. letting air through), kill the two packs, select fuel flow to cutoff, switch the engine start switch to GND and at 20% N2 I select the cutoff switch to run. I get an EGT rise to around 231

[marcom]

Thought I'd bump it before it disappears into the archives...

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

Mark....I'm getting the same effects regards the engine start when the N2 is ok (no X-bleed required) and a FLT Start is required. My PIC setup is fairly basic (no merges or editing of files), so I don't think PIC mods are influencing the results.In my tests, my airspeeds were high and my altitudes were low, so the engine should have started. I thought the problem might have been related to Anti-Ice, as I recall that this presents problems with starting on the ground in PIC, but this doesn't seem to be the case after running tests with/without Anti-Ice selected.I'm using a single joystick throttle, so it's not possible to set my throttles at idle with the other engine at high rpm (Could this be a factor?)."If the blue bleed memo appears on the EICAS, I make sure all the isolation valves are closed (ie. letting air through),..."Unlike electrical circuits, Isolation valves are "opened" to allow flow ;-) You don't need to open both Isolation valves (just the one on the dead engine side), but at the moment, I can't see why it should make any difference."On a sidenote, if both engines fail, but APU works, I can't lower the gear! All the hydraulic systems are running on their respective elec pumps, pressure is 3000 PSI but the gear won't come down. Gravity extend doesn't seem to work always. (This is with the 767)"Re gear extension...I didn't run any tests relating to the gear, but I'm just wondering if you have tried extending the gear normally? It should be ok with hydraulic pressure available. There are mechanical cables running from the gear lever in the cockpit to the wheel wells to activate the gear hydraulic valves which should deploy the gear normally. With the APU running, you should have electricity and bleed air for running the C Hyd system pumps.When you extend the gear electrically, are you setting your gear lever in the OFF position before pushing the ALTN switch (as per the Non-Normal checklist?).Cheers.Ian.

[marcom]

Hi Ian!Thanks for your reply!Ok so it'S not my setup...part of me is relieved, the other part wondering about a solution :-)Re engine start & throttle:I tried setting idle by pressing F1 (going over to a high speed descent) but that didn't help either.Re isolation valves - that's copied! Always confuse the open/closed phraseology ;-)Re Gear:Yupp, that was my first thought aswell -> as long as APU is on, all three hyd systems should be powered completely (with the exception of the left center hyd. elec pump, right?) but that didn't bring my gear down either. Set gear lever to off, then altn gear extend but nogo.A nice belly landing was the result...Regards,Mark

[crvm]

Humm. On the real Bird there would show an inflight start envelope range on the EICAS with an engine shutdown which would give you the next availible start alt and speed range for engine start like this.FL260 170-354 KTSFL240 170-360 KTSFL220 170-360 KTSIf no x-bleed air is needed for restart, using CONT on the start selector *should* restart the engine. I would NOT close anything, just posistion the start selector and give it a try.I preformed a restart on the right engine at FL 200 @ 240 KTS without trouble. Of course this is using the default aircraft. But for kicks I also tried it with the Posky merge and could preform restart at the same alt and roughly the same speed as above using, GRD,CONT and FLT. So, I would not touch any valve etc, *just* set the start selector, wait for a rise in N2 before switching the fuel selector to *on*.Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP2100 |MUNCHKIN512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ]K7S5A MB |[b]GF364 MEG |WIN XP PRO

[Guest Ian_Riddell]

If no x-bleed air is needed for restart, using CONT on the start selector *should* restart the engine."The PIC Non-Normal checklist recommends FLT, Randy (so I assume it's a real world thing). This is perhaps because in CONT, only the selected ignition system is energized (Which should be in "1" or "2" as I understand it). In FLT, both ignition systems are energized irrespective of "1", "BOTH" or "2" being selected (giving a better chance for startup)."I would NOT close anything, just posistion the start selector and give it a try."Nor open anything as per the PIC Non-Normal checklist for non-starter assisted starts."I performed a restart on the right engine at FL 200 @ 240 KTS without trouble. Of course this is using the default aircraft. But for kicks I also tried it with the Posky merge and could preform restart at the same alt and roughly the same speed as above using, GRD,CONT and FLT."The odd thing is, I repeated my tests later today using a situation saved from my previous tests and had no difficulties whatsoever starting either engine using "FLT"! :-oCheers.Ian.P.S. Mark... Were you only having problems with the Left Engine or with both?

[crvm]

Thanks Ian, looks like I need to read up on non normal conditions! Well interesting that it could be done. Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP2100 |MUNCHKIN512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ]K7S5A MB |[b]GF364 MEG |WIN XP PRO

[marcom]

Ian,I believe I was able to start the left engine but the right didn't want to spool up. N1 and N2 just froze midway during startup.I'll give it another go and will try to post some screenies.Regards,Mark

[marcom]

It took a little while longer than anticipated, but here we go again!First things first:http://home.t-online.de/home/mark.foti/767.jpgFor starters, lets ignore the RAT light :-coolI was cruising at FL240 and my left engine was killed. (Previously my right engine was stopped aswell, but that one started normally, I just didn't return the right engine start switch to Auto).Now I placed the left engine starter to FLT as there was no bleed indication on the lower EICAS. Left cutoff switch was set to run (as you can see on the fuel flow gauge). All indications rose as expected, but then everything froze as you can see on the screenshot. I must have waited for 30 seconds and no indication changed!Interestingly the left engine generator seems to be operating, however the left primary hydraulic pump doesn't?Did I miss something? Can anyone replicate this?Ok next thing: Gear extension!Before this scenario, I had cut both engines. Then I activated the alternate gear extend switch (gear lever was in off) and all three gear indicator lights went to solid green! I looked at the outside model but could see no gears extended!?I reset the system (i.e. gravity extend to normal) and started the APU. I activated all three hydraulic systems and tried lowered the gear lever do down. I got a gear disagree warning now. Tried the gravity gear system - 3 greens but the model still displayed the gears up. (gear lever in off and down). Then I started the right engine and voila - the gear lever was working again. Now I lowered the gear using gravity gear extend only and again, gear worked.Somehow the gear is tied into the right engine. If it works, the gear will come down. Vice versa. For all you flying with failures enabled, hope that the left engine will fail and not the right one!!I wonder if anyone can explain this? Is this-a bug (unlisted feature)?-User error?-Proof that I should stop using flight simulator so much and get on with life? I hope someone can confirm this behaviour (or even better come up with a solution :-grnmd)Regards,Mark

[Guest]

Try shutting down the pack before restart. Just tried your scenario and was able to relight without a problem. Hope this helps! Nate S.

[crvm]

And remember that in general BOTH igniters are used for air re-starts.Best Wishes,Randy J. [email protected]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ] K7S5A MB |[b]GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

[marcom]

Hi Nate!Already tried that :-(Anyway, it SHOULD not make a difference if there is no bleed indication on the lower EICAS.

[marcom]

Yupp, that's what FLT is all about.It energizes both starters regardless of the starter selector.On the real jet, you could get away with only one starter (leaving it in auto) but the chances of ignition are higher in FLT as both starters operate.Regards,Mark