Ryno,The British Airways 767 SOP is largely the same. On a "Normal" ILS it's Flap 5, VRef+40 for intercept, Gear down and Flap 20 at 2,000ft AAL on the glideslope, final app speed selected at 1,500ft AAL and as speed reduces below VRef+20, Flap 30 selected.Stabilised approach by 1,000ft AAL results.The BA SOPs also state that the use of intermediate flap settings (15 and 25) is "permissable and extremely useful when asked to fly at higher approach speeds by ATC".Interesting that Air Canada talk about "VRef 30". British Airways are adamant that there is only one VRef, and that is the manoeuvre speed for Flap 30. Any higher speeds (like FMC-derived Flap 25 Reference speed) are only for gross error checks and the approach is flown with speed as an increment of the Flap 30 VRef regardless of actual landing flap setting (like 20 or 25).Just another way of doing it I guess!

The BA SOPs also state that the use of intermediate flap settings (15 and 25) is "permissable and extremely useful when asked to fly at higher approach speeds by ATC" Some use flaps 25 as their landing flaps while others go flaps 30 this really depends upon their SOP and in other cases current weather conditions i.e. wind on approach. All this thred proves is there is not one way of doing it.... of actual landing flap setting (like 20 or 25) Sorry? Flaps 20 is not a landing flap but a T/O flap. Maybe you meant to say that while landing with flaps 20 set...? BA also will use on occasion flaps 20 for takeoff and flaps 15 is standard. You won't see this much used in North America although there are a couple who opt for flaps 15 T/O. Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

"Sorry? Flaps 20 is not a landing flap but a T/O flap. Maybe you meant to say that while landing with flaps 20 set...?"Randy,Sorry I was paraphrasing the BA SOPs and not telling the full story! Flap 20 is not a normal landing flap setting as you said, but it is called for by many non-normal procedures. What BA are trying to get across is that when doing a Flap 20 or Flap 25 landing that the VRef does not change, the increment on VRef to obtain the approach speed to be used is all that changes. So you don't have a "Flap 30 Vref" and a "Flap 25 Vref" etc...Earlier in the paragraph the SOPs read:"For Normal Operations Flap 30 is used for landing. Flap 20 is used for some landings when called for by a Non-normal checklist...."Hope that clarifies it a little!

Flap 20 is not a normal landing flap setting as you said, but it is called for by many non-normal procedures Out of curiosity, what are some of the many non-normal procedures that call for flaps 20 upon touchdown? I know that in the scrary instance of ditching Boeing calls for flaps 30.Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

The only exception to this rule is the use of Flap 15 for short periods during approach to meet ATC speed requirements when speeds in excess of VRef + 20 may be needed. This again is dependant upon many factors. If you are comming in to fast you don't want to use the flaps to slow you down that's what the speedbrakes are for and you can use them till 800AGL or so when needed.Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

Randy,An example of a non-normal procedure that Air Canada calls for a landing flap setting of 20, are both engine out precision and non-precision approaches.Best Regards,

Thanks Ryno. Now just the though of losing both engines and not being able to restart gives me the chills! I wonder how many real 757-767 drivers have had to land without both engines?? Without thrust you would think that you would not want to introduce more drag into an already bad situation. This is very interesting subject for study. Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

Non-normals that call for reduced landing flap:1. ALL FLAPS AND SLATS UP LANDING Vref30+502. ENGINE FAILURE OR SHUTDOWN Flaps 20 Vref20(Includes engine fire, severe damage, separation, reverser unlocked, hydraulic fuel pressure low, N1N2 mismatch all to inprove go-around performance)3. WING SLIDE Flaps 20 Vref204. LEADING EDGE FLAP ASYMMETRY Generally Flaps 20 Vref30+305. LEADING EDGE SLAT DISAGREE Generally Flaps 20 and Vref206. TRAILING EDGE FLAP ASYMMETRY Flaps 20 Vref 20, Flaps 5-20 Vref30+20 or less than Flaps 5 Vref30+307. TRAILING EDGE FLAP DISAGREE Generally Flaps 20 Vref208. HYDRAULIC SYSTEM PRESSURE (C ONLY) Flaps 20 Vref20 Quite a few really!

I guess I should enable faults more often! Thanks for a through responce.Best Wishes, Randy J. Smith[h5]San Jose Ca[/h5][h3]" A little learning is a dangerous thing"[/h3]AMD XP 2100 |MUNCHKIN 512 DDR RAM |ECS[/b ][i] K7S5A MB[/i] |GF3 64 MEG |WIN XP PRO |MITSUBISHI DIAMOND PLUS 91 19"

Randy,Very interesting indeed. Just to clarify my last post the scenario was single engine precision and non-precision approaches.

The only one that I know if is the AC flight that ran out of gas about fifteen years ago.

Does any one have a copy of British Airways Checklist? from like a cold start to shut down? I use FDC and would like to make a profile to use that is the same as BA'sBrian