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RobertVA

"Old" MS Sidewinder Precision Pro

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I got this from my mom, who bought it 2 years ago for her boyfriend, who in turn has never used it. It's the kind that has a gameport connection, but also comes with a gameport-USB adapter. Since it appeared to be Gameport/analog, I thought it would work with my analog CHProducts rudder pedals. I plugged it into the pedals' "Y" adapter and WinXP recognized it and it was "Connected" in the Game Controller window, everything works BUT the pedals. Anyone out there have any ideas?

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Hi. I use it with W98SE, but it may need to a rudder checked "Game Ctrls" to work? TV

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Win XP in general is less friendly to gameport controllers. I had a cheap Saitek one I used for racing for a while (didn't want to beat up my flightsim one, a Logitech Wingman Attack); it didn't work at all when I switched to XP.Anyway, when I select the Precision Pro from the list of joysticks/controllers, the rudder/pedal checkbox becomes grayed out. I can't add the stick under another configuration, custom or otherwise; it appears as Not Connected.A friend told me he had one for a while and it had a switch to go back and forth between digital and analog, but I see no such switch nor any reference to one in the little pamphlet.

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There are two types of controllers that attach to the game port.:(The original concept for IBM compatable gameport joysticks permited two axis and two buttons. If a second joystick was wanted for two player activities, a Y cable replaced the first joystick on the game port and both joysticks pluged into the remaining ends of the Y cable. The Y cable was wired to connect one of the two joysticks to the pins on the gameport for the second pair of axis and the second pair of buttons.:-erksThe original two axis proved an obvious choice for roll and pitch control, but throttle and rudder had to be controled with the keyboard. Some simulators permitted the throttle and rudder to be controled with the second joystick, although self centering proved troublesome for the throttle. Joystick manufacturers eventually produced models which utilzed the circuits for the second joystick to implement throttle wheels, view hats, and additional buttons (including triggers). Lacking a common standard, these uses of the second joystick's circuits were inconsistant and sometimes incompatable. A few apparently use a combination of hardware in the joystick and driver software to translate larger numbers of buttons to a four bit number (would allow up to fifteen buttons including view hat positions). Some models even connected to both the game port and the keyboard port.:-bluegrabMany manufacturers eventually designed joysticks which completely bypassed the circuits intended for game controlers. The standard game port also includes circuitry intended for a special type of two way serial communication with musical devices like sythesizers and organ/piano style keyboards. With appropriate drivers these controlers are not resticted to the conventional four axis and four buttons of the original game controler scheme. these joysticks were often refered to as "digital" and often are not compatable with DOS Mode games (Windows 95 or later required). I beleive that some of the original Microsoft Sidewinder and or Sidewinder 3D models had a switch that would allow the owner to select betwen this MIDI mode and the original analog scheme. I think the analog compatability was dropped in the Force Feedback model (which requires data transmission from the computer to the joystick) and the Precision Pro. Models with dual MIDI and USB compatabilities apparently are able to detect the presence of the adaptor or identify the signals comeing from the computer and operate utilizing the appropriate stream of serial data pulses.*:-*I have not heard of the game port having the capability to utilize analog scheme game contolers and MIDI scheme controlers at the same time. I suspect the gameport CH rudder control and CH Pro rudders are analog scheme devices. If game software or driver are written to support it, simultanious USB and analog controler use IS posible. I am currently using a Logitech Wingman Force joystick on my USB hub with an analog Thrustmaster RCS (Rudder Control System) in several flight simulators using the Logitech driver with a rudder checkbox.:-outta

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Interesting.I think I'm up a creek. This joystick has no switch, and I found out it's the kind that has the rudder built into the rotating "neck." That's why the rudder checkbox gets grayed, I suppose. Further, there are no Win XP drivers for this, except for what's in XP. I toyed with the idea of downloading the newest drivers off the MS site and trying them anyway.The analog CH joystick, the Flightsick Pro, is starting to look attractive: CH, 3-yr. warranty, and drivers specifically WinXP friendly. But it's nearly $60us. So that analog Thrustmaster has it's own software? I'm trying to figure out how yours works with no joystick attached to the pedals.

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The driver software that came on CD with the Wingman Force Feedback didn't have rudder support, but the free driver upgrade on the Logitech site added that function. My stick is the original Wingman Force with a much larger base than the Wingman Force 3D model currently on the market. The Force 3D model has the twist grip function similar to the twist feature on many current joysticks. I don't know if the Force Feedback 3D is compatable with analog rudder pedals.While the analog joystick driver that comes with Windows appears to require a joystick pluged into the rudder's Y cable, the Logitech Wingman Force driver apparently doesn't have that requirement. I never uninstalled or disabled the driver for the analog joystick I had before I bought the Wingman Force Feedback, and the Windows Gameing Options reports the analog Joystick as "Not Connected". Apparently the Logitech driver is supplying the rudder input, making it appear to come from the joystick.Some of the early Thrustmaster joysticks used what would later become the throttle axis for the view hat! Each hat position produced a different value on the axis and provisions in the simulators code (added by the sim developer to support the particular joystick model) read the values. The Thrustmaster throttles that came out shortly latter intercepted the signals from the view hat and feed keystrokes coresponding to the number pad to the keyboard port. With a full installation (joystick rudder and pedals) you could end up with rudder pedals pluged into the game port, throttle pluged into the keyboard port and the pedal's Y cable, keyboard pluged into a port on the base of the throttle, and the joystick plugged into a second port on the throttle base. With the advent of the smaller PS2 style keyboard connectors TWO keyboard adaptors had to match up the connector sizes. Some of the later Thrustmaster joystick / throttle combinations required the Joystick pluged into the Rudder's Y cable and the throttle (with attached keyboard) plugged into the joystick! Programming all this allowed a lot of different options, but most of the work was accomplished by digital circuitry in the earlier throttles (WCS and WCS mark II) and the latter model joysticks (F-16 and F-22 models).The RCS pedals apparently contain little more eletronicly than a potentiometer and do not have their own drivers. The RCS pedals have a nice substantial base and swing arms though.

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Hi. Plug in a "dummy/old" analog stick with the rudder pedals in the Gameport, leave your MS in the USB and your OS should see it and you can then select it. TV

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