Hi,Just a quick question...yesterday I witnessed a tailstrike of a b767-300 upon take off from LSZH probably due to over rotation as the wx conditions at the time were CAVOK with little wind if any. This tailstrike seemed to have had no effect whatsoever on the continuation of the flight as the aircraft went on to it's planned destination some 10hours away. The strike did not produce any sparks (as I could see)but did leave a little bit of white "smoke" in it's wake, very similar to that produced by the gear of an aircraft as it lands. It was actually quite an abrubt and somewhat brutal take off to observe !! As anyone else seen this happen before and does anyone know if,and what the consequences are of such a strike on the fuselage. I'm pretty sure that the pilots were more than happy to have the "tail strike pad" on this particular 767...it must have been kind of scary for the passengers...and for the pilots as wellThanks for the inputHappy landings...(and better take-offs...)

"The strike did not produce any sparks (as I could see)but did leave a little bit of white "smoke" in it's wake, very similar to that produced by the gear of an aircraft as it lands."The pilots and passengers may or may not have felt the strike, Rhys. I'm sure if the strike had been hard and loud enough they would have returned to the airport as a safety precaution. The tip of the Tail Skid is rubberized, which would probably explain the smoke. "As anyone else seen this happen before and does anyone know if,and what the consequences are of such a strike on the fuselage. "Well, there are tail strikes and there are TAIL STRIKES :-) There was a picture of a 747 posted on the internet a few months ago showing the result of a rather serious tailstrike which ripped open the 747's tail (in Auckland, New Zealand, I think). I recall reading that the pilots barely felt it(?). The worrying thing, however, is that tailstrikes can cause damage which is not so obvious which may lead to problems down the track. The Aft Cabin Pressure Bulkhead has been known to fracture after a tailstrike... These can explode at high altitude with serious consequences.On a 767, the Tail Skid has to be seriously damaged before the pilots have any visible indications in the cockpit. Also, the indication, in some cases, may not occur until after the gear has been extended for landing. Usually Tail Skids are inspected for damage after each flight. The damage is easy to see on 737's, 767's and 777's, especially if they are fitted with Tail Skids (The 777 also has a Tailstrike warning system). This may not be the case if the damage was to a 747, where the damage could be really high off the ground. I would have erred on the side of caution and tried to contact someone about it. Perhaps ATC, the local police or the airline concerned. Unfortunately, a lot of airlines have these really annoying answering machines, making it hard to get in contact with a real person. If you did get through however, I would try to speak to the Engineering department (They usually get pretty excited about this kind of thing :-) ). If you were able to get in contact with them fairly quickly and you knew the exact time of the strike, they may be able to figure out which aircraft it was and might be able to contact the pilots on VHF before the aircraft flew out of radio range. If that failed, I guess you could always call your local newspaper... I'm sure they'd love to know about this kind of thing :-)Hope this helps?Cheers.Ian.

Yeah, I was in Auckland when it happened Ian, they only had APU fire indications with this damage(!):http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=47798

Hi, Thanks for your input & the very interesting information. I was also concerned that this could lead to future problems with the aft pressure bulkhead.(the JAL accident comes to mind).As for reporting it...hmmm perhaps I should have. I was quite busy at the time of the incident and reporting it did not come to mind.The incident must have gone noticed by the crew as they immediatly and quite obviously corrected the take off angle after the strike.Not only that but the performed SID after take off looked a little "funny" and did not resemble anything close to the usual SID for that particular runway !! Perhaps they were a little thrown from the poor take off !? The 747-400 picture is quite incredible...OUCH !Suprising that it wasn't really felt...at least not by the pilots. I'm quite sure that some of the passengers sat in the rear would have noticed an unusual thump ! Certainly it will not go unoticed by SIA's accountants...Thanks for all the input. Happy landings Cheers,

I know that in the 757-300 and some latter model 200's that have the tailskid there are 2 types of indications. I would assume that the 767 would be the same, since they are usually pretty identical in most ways. If the tail skid is hit lightly, which is a relative term, there will be no indication. And in the 757-300, the tail is so far from the cockpit, it would be really hard to tell just from the pitch angles. In the 757-300, at VLOF, which is the speed the main wheels actually lift of, the pitch atittude is 8.5 degrees and the tail is only 33 inches from the pavement. So it does not take too much to over rotate. There is a cylinder connected to the tail skid, and if the tail strike is hard enough to compress this cylinder more that a half inch, which takes a hard hit, a light in the cockpit, which is right next to the gear indicators, lights up and the crew is supposed to return to have the tail inspected, for reasons like the 747 that blew out the aft pressure vessel. Well, hope this is more information than you ever wanted to know.

Speaking of tail strikes.A JAL B747 experienced a tail strike 7 years before this accident, and was repaired by Boeing. The repair was not done correctly, which is hard to believe, but that was the final determination. It was a joint investigation by Boeing, NTSB and the JAL version of our NTSB.When the rear pressure bulkhead ruptured it blew off the rudder and 75 percent of the vertical stablizer. It was the largest single-aircraft disaster in the world. 520 people on board were killed when the B747 suffered an explosive decompression while climbing through 23,000 feet. The failure of the rear pressure bulkhead caused a portion of the vertical stabilizer to be blown away, rupturing all four main hydraulic fluid lines. Controlling the aircraft solely by engine thrust, the crew was attempting to return to Tokyo when the aircraft clipped one mountain ridge, flew across a valley, and impacted a second mountain approximately 400 feet from the summit. Just a small piece of trivia. Airliners today run a differential pressure around 8 psi at cruise altitude. That's over 1000 pounds per square foot!

Hi,Many thanks for the info...It's exactly this type of feedback thatI was hoping for. All very interesting !!Cheers,

The 767's tailskid (no scratches in the red paint on the rubber bumper on this one :-cool ):http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid7...d3/fb5e30ba.jpgSome of our (QF) aircraft actually print out a takeoff report that gives your rotation information, including pitch rate, attitude and calculated tail clearance, although it has a high degree of error it is a good training tool.

"The 767's tailskid (no scratches in the red paint on the rubber bumper on this one "Wow... a colour co-ordinated tailskid! :-) Or perhaps the QF painters didn't like the look of the scratches in the tailskid, so they painted over them??? :(Interestingly, I read, the tailskid is designed to detach if it's hit too hard (shear system). There are restraining cables... presumably to stop it flying off and landing on the runway. "Some of our (QF) aircraft actually print out a takeoff report that gives your rotation information"Kewl.... I think I remember reading about that somewhere, but could never figure out how to navigate to that particular page on the IDU :-hmmm Is it available on the ground after the flight?Thanks.Cheers.Ian.

"I know that in the 757-300 and some latter model 200's that have the tailskid there are 2 types of indications. I would assume that the 767 would be the same,..."Never assume, Al ;-) ... but I may have to look into the 767 system a bit harder to see if the operation as you describe is similar to the 757's.I (previously) understood that the Tail Skid Light and associated EICAS msg only appeared as a result of a fault (e.g. if the Tail Skid failed to retract or deploy... and disagreed with the position of the landing gear lever). I thought there was some kind of time delay to stop small, momentary strikes registering in the cockpit. Aircraft like the 777, by the way, have both Tail Skids and Tailstrike sensors (the latter looking like a blade antenna)."if the tail strike is hard enough to compress this cylinder more that a half inch, which takes a hard hit, a light in the cockpit, which is right next to the gear indicators, lights up and the crew is supposed to return to have the tail inspected,..."I may have to consult the (real) experts to see if this is the case with our 76's ;-)Cheers.Ian.

Hi,Thanks for the information. I'll see if I can get my hands on the aircraft's technical log when it comes back to lszh and see if there was any insertion pertaining to the tailstrike written in it. Cheers for now,

You can't fool me. I know you just finished touching up the red paint. See, it looks wet. ;-)Lee Hetherington (KBED)

Don't over rotate or hold her off to long! You're just asking for trouble.

Guilty here, I finally remarked out the people screaming wav file. LOL

What is the proper pitch in degrees for rotation/