>>both SB3 and FSInn should achieve final release approval in>the >first half of 2005>>cz>>So get this through your heads... VATSIM has decided that it>might take until June of 2005 before you see another client>for use on VATSIM. You should be a political consultant the way you spin words. CZ stated the first half of 2005. Heck, that could be anytime between Jan 1 and June 30. So in the no spin zone, it could be released in Jan.

Impatience isn't going to make it happen any faster...........As an SB3 alpha and beta tester I can say - yes it works very well - but there are still small problems arising from time to time . Joel is getting the bugs fixed at a very good rate but surely it will be better for all if , when it goes public- the users don't have to work around any bugs at all.All to often software is publicly released without adequate testing which then means frequent updates/fixes as the problems become apparent thru use.I'm sure most of you want to spend your time online flying rather than sorting out problems so I'll say it again - be patient - it'll be worth the wait.Dave

Been waiting so long, it's become enjoyable to simply use FS9 ATC. Can fly IFR with FULL coverage whenever I chose. Yes, it IS sad to see such a valuable site being hung up by the changes. Several Virtual Airlines, as well as IVAO, have their own servers running the new (beta) software with very few problems. So in the long run - competition may be best for the user, if the developers can keep up with MS changing the playing field every two years. I'm sure Joel will eventually present an awesome solution, but when was the last time anyone used software that was 100% bug free?I can't remember that far back. Exposing any extensive software package to a multitude of various platforms and configurations will always find a few more "bugs". In today's environment - everyone is a beta tester.

Hey Ceejay, if you read the SB3 forum you will see it has already been said, SB3 will not be 100% bug free. Its just the really big ones we have to work on.As far as IVAO this is second hand info, but a few people with my VA have tried the new software they have. Its not as good as IVAO is making it sound. Its gone open beta and is being updated every week. This is what Vatsim does not what to have happen. That is why we are on a closed beta of SB3 and FSInn.

I have tried the IVAP program on IVAO... Beta or no, I really do not like the format of the interface. My only problem with SB was the inablility to integrate the window into FS as in previous versions. Additionally, unless there is an option/switch I've missed, you cannot turn off IVAPs weather processing (like you can in SB). So us Activesky and FSMeteo users have a problem and IVAPs weather engine is still very limited.I personally don't think SB needs a huge overhaul - just the multiplayer and integration improvements.

Straight from the vatsim forum (http://forums.vatsim.net/viewtopic.php?t=162&sid=95aff10322b40528dedee5e6526f2a2e):>As I said in another post:>there will be no more open betas on VATSIM;>no new clients will be released in 2004;>both SB3 and FSInn should achieve final release approval in the >first half of 2005>czSo get this through your heads... VATSIM has decided that it might take until June of 2005 before you see another client for use on VATSIM. Considering this news and the 'problem' of people emmigrating from VATSIM to IVAO in Europe, we may very well be seeing some HUGE battle looming between these two big networks. In the _free market_ model this usually turns out to be good for the consumer. Let's hope it's good for us users too. It's just sad that so many people have to go through this much frustration to see improvements in what once was a fast-moving, great network. So to recap... 28 months and counting, all the way up to 34 months. I can have patience for 6 more months, and while that time passes, I'll just fly elsewhere.Ahh, vented frustration is good for the soul isn't it?