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oal331

OpenCockpits / FsBus ----> where are the differences?

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Hi all,(i re-post this thread, as the previous for some reason lost it.)I'm using the last 10 months the FsBus system (h/w & s/w) and i control/fly the Project Magenta or the std FS aircrafts. I have the EFIS + MCP running and almost finished the Radios. I know all the Dirk's efforts and new fuctions in Fsbus, i know how FsBus works and read/write/communicate with PC/Fsuipc/FS. My question is simple: Where are the differences between two projects FsBus and OpenCockpits? What has the one that does not have/support the other? What is better in one of them?How the choice of the one or the aother will effect end-user/flightsimmer in his flights ?As i believe it is a very critical question and many new friends want to know about these two different choices, please reply to this thread with any useful information about. Please don't re-direct me to the web sites to read the docs. We need live/hot information as people/users have it. I can only help from FsBus as i don't know both of them. Best regardsEddie ArmaosAthens-Greece

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Hi Eddie- I am not 100% sure, but I believe that the opencockpits system is the same to an extent because they are the only ones allowed by FSBUS to make and distribute the FSBUS system for money. I do know that they also have the 8mm display system. Don't quote me, but i think this is the way it goes.

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one difference is about DisplayBy FSBUS you use 1 CID and 1 PIC for 5 digits displayever if you just need 2 digits.By Iocard each digit is separate, you've 16 digits available/graphic-card.Other one is Key & LED are direct on the master IOcardBy FSBUS you'll need modules.FSBUS soft is more evoluated for complex programmingwith the new Cockpit-Contruction-Center.-> just great graphic programmation who open a wide range of new features to realise.Personnely I'll use both. Iocard for the base and the "alone" digits display. and FSBUS for complex panel (APU,electr. systems, Deice, ...) and for 5 digits displays (radios, altitude, ...)BOB

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Bob,thanks for your remarks. Of course the new graphic fuction of CCC is a real revolution in our hobby and thanks to Dirk's efforts we can do more and more new thinks.As you use both systems, have you noticed any difference in speed?I mean that i can notice a small delay with the serial communication.Does USB communications have such delays? How it handles the 7-segment displays? Do they have delay to refresh the new values?Also IO Master Card accepts direct rotary encoders as i can read. So there is no need for redec? Any rotary encoder can be connected to Master card?ThanksEddie ArmaosAthens-Greece

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FSBUS is still running but I'm just soldering my IOcard ...I will test and compare it together in some days ...So I can't reply to your questions yetBOB

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Eddie,thanks for raising this issue. Like you, I am also trying to hear about the comparisons from the respective users without much luck. In the process, i guess i formed my own opinions based on my research :-)So far, from what I noticed, "Community Support" is the biggest difference between them. Technically both seem excellent projects, FSBUS picking up more steam these days with it's excellent CCC software and in-general being strong in the software department. On the other hand, IOCards with it's a) USB interface b)ability to connect to rotary switches directly without needing decoder circuits c) ability to connect many inputs/outputs directly to the master card seem like a better hardware interface. Also, I have noticed some users prefering IOCards claiming better response speeds. So while each having their advantage and disadvantages, the biggest difference as I noticed is the - community support behind each project.FSBUS seem to enjoy more following (atleast among english speaking builders) thus the wide support. You can feel comfortable knowing if you post a question on this board about FSBus, chances are more people might come to rescue. On the other hand, IOCards message board seem active only because of the sincere efforts from it's moderator and project sponsors partcipation. These two or three individuals always replied promptly to most of my queries and they are committed and excellent. However, without them you could feel lonely there. Secondly, it is primarily a spanish project and at times i found it hard to communicate in english. FSBUS also seem to have similar disadvantages in the documentation section. I found IOCards documentation (in english) excellent and information more readily available than FSBUS. Another difference is based on your expertise with electronics and making PCBs etc., If you are a novice, IOCards project seem like easy to start with since they sell either the barebone PCBs or PCB + component kit or fully assembled kits at a very reasonable non-profit kind of prices. With FSBUS this was the biggest issue for me. I could not find a place that will manufacture the PCBS easily at a reasonable price. I agree with Bob and you could find place for both in your project. You can quickly start with IOcards for MCP and slowly build and find room for FSBus which is what my current plan is. If nothing else, solely due to the easy availability of IOCards PCBs.bottom line is both seem excellent projects making it hard to decide. I wish IOCards users communicate better. PS: I use neither system currently. I am also trying to find answer to the same question you had. So appreciate any other current users correcting and clarifying further...regardssri777

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>b)ability to connect to rotary switches directly without needing >decoder circuitsYou can connect 12-step rotary switches (well, any rotary switches that have a multiple-of-4 number of steps, ie, 8, 12, 16 etc, though 12-step rotaries are most common) - those can be wired directly by "bridging" every 4th contact together. Connect 1,5,9 / 2,6,10 / 3,7,11 / 4,8,12 together so that when you rotate clockwise you get contact on pins 123412341234 and 432143214321 when you rotate the other direction. This can be connected directly to fsbus, and those 12-step rotaries can be found rather cheaper than encoders. They work fine for radio knobs etc, plus with the opencockpits.com tutorial (yes, the same guys that make iocard, the same idea was probably figured out by us and them roughly the same time, since the tutorial appeared on several places at the same time, their tutorial is just well written so I always link to them :))Anyway, as a clarification and my original point: the same "encoded" 12-step rotary works also with FSBUS.//Tuomas

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Thanks for the clarification Tuomas. >>b)ability to connect to rotary switches directly without>needing decoder circuitsI realize i intended to say "rotary encoders" not "rotary switches" in that line.Here is what i found on IOCards website about this. On MASTER CARD description page:...IS NEEDED TO CONNECT OTHER CIRCUIT, BUT IN ADDITION, ELEMENTS AS SWITCHES, CERTAIN MODELS OF ROTARY ENCODERS, SIMULATED ROTARY-ENCODERS, PUSH BUTTONS... CAN BE DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO ITS INPUTS.On ENCODERS CIRCUIT Description page:SOME TYPE OF ENCODERS (GRAY TYPE) CAN BE CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THE MASTER CARD, SO NO ADDITIONAL CIRCUIT IS NEEDED. YOU CAN FIND THESE GRAY TYPE ENCODERS AT PETER DOWNSON'S WEBSITE WWW.FLIGHTDECKSOLUTIONS.COMP.S. Caps are unintentional. I just did cut and paste :-)I think what you described i.e., bridging every 4th contact is what IOCards calls "simulated rotary encoder". In addition, it seems "gray type encoders" also can be directly connected to the card. Infact, i asked a question about this on their board (http://www.opencockpits.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Forums&file=viewtopic&topic=181&forum=1) and unfortunately only got a partial response (the main drawback as i was mentioning earlier). If I understand correctly, to use these gray type encoders with FSBUS, we need decoders circuits. Please correct me if i am wrong. I am a newbie and trying to educate myself. //sri777>>b)ability to connect to rotary switches directly without>needing >>decoder circuits>>You can connect 12-step rotary switches (well, any rotary>switches that have a multiple-of-4 number of steps, ie, 8, 12,>16 etc, though 12-step rotaries are most common) - those can>be wired directly by "bridging" every 4th contact together.>Connect 1,5,9 / 2,6,10 / 3,7,11 / 4,8,12 together so that when>you rotate clockwise you get contact on pins 123412341234 and>432143214321 when you rotate the other direction. This can be>connected directly to fsbus, and those 12-step rotaries can be>found rather cheaper than encoders. They work fine for radio>knobs etc, plus with the opencockpits.com tutorial (yes, the>same guys that make iocard, the same idea was probably figured>out by us and them roughly the same time, since the tutorial>appeared on several places at the same time, their tutorial is>just well written so I always link to them :))>>Anyway, as a clarification and my original point: the same>"encoded" 12-step rotary works also with FSBUS.>>//Tuomas>

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About Displays card, as i can see they support up to 16 displays each. 16 displays are = 16 X 7-segement digits, or 16 displays with full digits (heading has 3, NAV1 has 5 etc?)Eddie ArmaosAthens-Greece

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>16 displays are = 16 X 7-segement digits, >or >16 displays with full digits (heading has 3, NAV1 has 5 >etc?)16 individually controlled, independent full 7-seg digits on each display card (second case in your above words i guess). However, note that the displays that have only two states (zero number/off, or negative-sign/off) can be directly connected to and controlled via the output channel on the master card. Hence, with a single displays card, you can complete a MCP. For further info: http://www.opencockpits.com/modules.php?na...showpage&pid=11//sri777 >>>>Eddie Armaos>Athens-Greece

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