Dum di dum..http://www.tigert.com/aviation/vatsim/cock...-gearpanel.jpeghttp://www.tigert.com/aviation/vatsim/cock...n-avionics.jpeghttp://www.tigert.com/aviation/vatsim/cock...n-closeup2.jpeghttp://www.tigert.com/aviation/vatsim/cock...n-closeup1.jpegDum di dum... Since someone is going to ask about the pushbuttons anyway, those are ELFA.se "35-680-45" :)The white button is going to be the act/sby frequency swapper.Oh, the panels are made of CNC'd black anodized aluminium, engraved text filled with white.http://www.schaeffer-ag.de/ for europe, http://www.frontpanelexpress.com/ for America.Very nice, you just download a 2D-cad software, draw your setup and fire up an order from the software itself, pay with credit card and you get these in 1.5 to 2 weeks.I'm impressed. Now it's a lot of soldering.. :)//Tuomas

Look real nice... statisfied? :D LOL

And now for the price ?One more question: which colors can be chosen for the plates ? Or can it have any ?

>And now for the price ?>>One more question: which colors can be chosen for the plates ?> Or can it have any ?Get the app, play with it. Once you design something, it tells you the price.It has a bunch of colors for the anodization, but black suited my needs best (most radios are black anyway) - you can also supply your own material (an idea for you "got to build a CNC!" -guys, send painted plexi to them and let them engrave in it - much cheaper than building the CNC first.. and you get good quality results)The price depends on what you do, but that set was around 139 euros. Which is quite reasonable considering this was a totally custom one-of-a-kind product run.//Tuomas

Tuomas, looks excellent!!!!!Matt O.

Hmm, interesting stuff there, thanks for the info.While it does preclude backlighting options, it certainly beats plexi/paint for durability of finished product.What thickness of aluminum did you use for those faceplates?

>Hmm, interesting stuff there, thanks for the info.>>While it does preclude backlighting options, it certainly>beats plexi/paint for durability of finished product.>>What thickness of aluminum did you use for those faceplates?Those are 2mm - the range to choose from is 1.5mm to 4mm. The colors are of course "Natural" (basic aluminium), "Gold", "Red", "Blue", "Green", "Black" (that I used) and "Medium Bronze". But you can also send (or probably ask if they can get) your own material to cut these from - so plexi is an option.The engravings can be done in black, white, red, green, blue, dark blue, light blue, yellow, orange and ocher brown. Or just left without filling, thus they will be the color of the material.The software is free download, you just design stuff and you can get a price quote from the application itself. It can also do threaded holes, countersunk screw holes, "cavities" (engraved, sunken areas) etc - the more you do the more it of course will cost. But this is definitely a nice option - especially when one doesnt really need backlighting on a GA plane anyway.One interesting application for these would be turboprop throttle "cover" with the red and white legends etc - from 1.5mm alu - carefully bend it to a shape over a round log or something (does anodization break from that?? Anyone know?) - it might be a nice durable cover that feels much nicer than plastic.//Tuomas

>>The software is free download, you just design stuff and you>can get a price quote from the application itself. It can also>do threaded holes, countersunk screw holes, "cavities"> (engraved, sunken areas) etc - the more you do the more it of>course will cost. But this is definitely a nice option ->especially when one doesnt really need backlighting on a GA>plane anyway.>Just downloaded the software a little while ago and had a go at it. Not too bad, though I'm a CAD draftsman and used to a bit more. Still it works well and creating/placing items is straight forward. The pricing bit is a very nice feature, lets you know what you're in for prior to actually ordering. It is nice to see the breakdown of the cost as well.I did notice a slight variation from my original drawings for the radio stack faceplates. I suspect it has something to do with the metric/imperial conversion. I don't think they deal with anything below 0.5mm accuracy, and 6.25" works out to 158.75mm. I think the 0.75mm is being rounded.As for backlighting, I was planning on doing replicas of Bendix/King Silver Crown units, which do have it. While backlighting is nice, it certainly isn't a deal-breaker and the extra durability of aluminum is a big plus.A thought on the engraved text filling. Seems like that is one of the larger charges if you select it as an option. Even more so if you have more than one color. As these faceplates are anodized aluminum, filling could be done by using model paint (or another type) and wiping any excess off with mineral spirits or lacquer thinner (depending on paint type). This would allow you to do any colors you want. I guess it depends on whether you have the paint supplies and how industrious one feels... :)Again, thanks for the information on this alternative. I'm giving it some serious consideration.

"I'm giving it some serious consideration."As am I..... care to share the file for the Bendix faceplate you did? I was thinking of the same thing (I'm currently doing the electronics for a 7-seg serial port display) and there seems little point in reinventing the wheel.Richard

>"I'm giving it some serious consideration.">>As am I..... care to share the file for the Bendix faceplate>you did? >>I was thinking of the same thing (I'm currently doing the>electronics for a 7-seg serial port display) and there seems>little point in reinventing the wheel.>>RichardI sure can, but I need to finish it first. I actually have the whole stack design (minus AP) in CAD at the moment, but need to work it over to their software. You will need to consider hole sizes for buttons and knob shafts. Some of mine are "guesstimates" as I am still hunting down components but wanted to get an idea of cost, so I threw them in. I have decided on the 7-segs I'm using (I think), unfortunately to get the readout height and characters per unit width I wanted, I had to go with surface mount components. Should make for a fun-filled day of soldering 200 very tiny contacts (and that's only for one nav/com :( ). A correction to my previous post. I suspect the accuracy thing had something to do with the HPGL file I imported. I was hoping to save some time by bringing the whole unit in from CAD. It imported, but for some reason things were a bit off. In any event, if you are considering these aluminum faceplates as an option, disregard my comments on accuracy.

>"I'm giving it some serious consideration.">>As am I..... care to share the file for the Bendix faceplate>you did? >>I was thinking of the same thing (I'm currently doing the>electronics for a 7-seg serial port display) and there seems>little point in reinventing the wheel.Sure. Not going to do the same as too many others ;) There will not be YetAnotherSimHardwareCompanyThatNeverDeliversAnything :) Read the README though, basically have fun, use freely for personal stuff and let me know if you do some more cool stuff with these..The files are here:http://www.tigert.com/aviation/vatsim/cock...tuff/fpd-files/The audiopanel is using the "Mountain Switch" pushbutton with green led (the one that is rectangle shaped with the led on one edge) etc.. I tried to base everything on the 2.54mm / 0.1 inch grid, but it seemed to have a bit of error - had to cut a perfboard in two to make the mountain switch buttons fit - though on the GNS panel the elfa buttons aligned perfectly. So if you want to do your own, make sure you check everything before ordering :)The grid feature is good, set it to 0.1 inch and you can lay out most buttons etc. You can also create your own "object library" by doing a new file, drawing holes and such and grouping things - open, paste to your design and duplicate. Align first manually to the grid "holes", then turn on snap to grid and it will stay aligned. The above url has "lib" subdir which has a few such objects I defined for my own use.//Tuomas

> I have>decided on the 7-segs I'm using (I think), unfortunately to>get the readout height and characters per unit width I wanted,>I had to go with surface mount components. Should make for a>fun-filled day of soldering 200 very tiny contacts (and that's>only for one nav/com :( ).Oh, I am sort of having the same problem, since I found some very tiny 7-segments but they will be exactly the width of the radio panel - without any gaps, just a small 5mm gap between nav and com - act+stby will be right next to each other. Not ideal but works. Tell me more about tiny segments? :)>A correction to my previous post. I suspect the accuracy>thing had something to do with the HPGL file I imported. I>was hoping to save some time by bringing the whole unit in>from CAD. It imported, but for some reason things were a bit>off. In any event, if you are considering these aluminum>faceplates as an option, disregard my comments on accuracy.REad my other post too - I did have some weird alignment problem in the audio panel even thouhg I do think I checked everything. IT could be my own error too, since the other panels align pretty well. Let me know if you figure out something.//Tuomas

>>Oh, I am sort of having the same problem, since I found some>very tiny 7-segments but they will be exactly the width of the>radio panel - without any gaps, just a small 5mm gap between>nav and com - act+stby will be right next to each other. Not>ideal but works. Tell me more about tiny segments? :)>Here are the 7-segs I'm looking at using:Kingbright APSC03-41SURKWA - 0.3" character height - letters after 41 specify colorKingbright APSC02-41SURKWA - 0.2" character height and slightly smaller component footprint than aboveYou can get the data sheets at Kingbright's website http://www.kingbright.com/I haven't investigated exactly how to get these yet, Mouser might have them. According to the data sheet, they come on tape with over 1,000 units on a tape. I'm hoping to find them for sale by the piece, or at least smaller quantities.I was hoping to find matching alphanumerics for use in the autopilot annunciators but haven't come across any yet.Here is what the unit looks like, top one shows the actual display component position, bottom shows how the numbers should appear using the 0.3" characters. They are closer than I would like, but there is a little bit of space between the sets. Note that the fixed 1's help to give the appearance of additional spacing. I could get a little more space with the 0.2" components, and that may actually match the real B/K radios better. I will need to work it out in CAD to get a good idea as there isn't a whole lot of difference in width between the two. Then again, at this scale all savings count and the saved width per unit is x 20 for the entire width of the radio display.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/113573.jpg

That's not even such a bad idea you give there.Just have plates (unpainted) engraved with no color filling. Then after you get them home you can paint them any color you like and fill the engravings with white. I will download this soft and check what price I come up with.

I'm drawing my panels.I take 3mm cuz there isn't much difference between 2, 2.5 and 3 anyway. 4 makes a lot of difference.I tend to end up with an average (so far after 2 panels) of 18 to 25 euro per panel. That's not too bad.This is if I take non-painted panels.