To all the replied to my below post please read.

[Guest]

First off Anniette, I'm sorry if you feel I'm attacking you or feel that I defend theives. I don't !!! Mike the same goes for you to. I'm sorry if you feel this way it isn't my intention. Mike you have been great for this hobby, I appreciate this. I probably should have just lurked like I have been ever since this copyright issue first started a few years back. I just get so frustrated with this issue. I have my opinon which seems to differ from alot of the people who replied to the topic. My number one opinion though is if you copy anothers work, either a Real airline logo or a FS'ers repaint just ask for permission before you do it. That's all. Out of all the groups or designers I have seen, Project Opensky has been the best at this. When they first released their 767 for Fs2000. They would not let ANYBODY put an American Airlines livery on it until they received permission from AA first. Why is it in this hobby it's ok for one person to copy ones work but not allright for another? This is just a game I have a wife and Son that mean alot more to me.

[Guest CharlesH]

Jeff:Why these attacks in a public forum. If you had a question regarding copyright issue, then you should have really posted the question to Tom or someone here at AVSIM. Why air such stuff in the open, when you should have really done it behind closed doors. Attacking people does no one any good. Get the facts together before lauching such a mess, then saying I am sorry for dragging people through the mud. This is really unfair. I am sure that the issue of copyright has been already addressed earlier on. I sure remember when the whole AA mess came up. History sure repeats itself. Saying your sorry sure is not enough. These people go through so much, with such things as, hey the wheels are not the right color, sending virus through the mail, ect. This has got to stop. Anniette, Mike Stone, Heather and many more designers should first be respected for what they do. They make flying fun for me and many more. I am so grateful for them being apart of this great community, and you and others simply drive them away. From where I stand, sorry is not enough, I cannot speak for the others.Charles

[Guest]

Charles,You don't understand. I am not the one who stole anything. I am not the one who accused the person on the public forum. The copyright issue came full circle a couple of years ago. I typically stay out of it especially since it always seems to pop up every other month. Yes, I started this post but in reference to a post that was accusing one of stealing. I wasn't the one dragging anybody thru the mud. I don't know where this came from :-roll. I'm not sorry a single bit for what I said. I'm sorry that you and others feel the way you do when that wasn't my intention to begin with. I work for an airline. I use to paint and contribute to this hobby. I'm not going to go indepth. I have already done this. I have known what "these" people have gone thru. I use to encourage people to help me make my repaints better. You can tell when ones comments are genuine and when they are just to ##### you off. I always replied thanking them and explained why I did something a particular way. I invited them to try it there way and see how it looks. I never did a repaint just to get noteriety or my tailfin kissed. I did it just to contribute.Why is it everytime on this forum when somebody goes against one of the freeware designers opinions, they are considered bashers, flamers, trolls, or trying to destroy the hobby??? I respect their efforts and I'm sure they can say they never received an email or a public bashing of a design or repaint from me. If they can I'll call them a liar. If I don't like it I won't use it. I'm not going to kiss ones tailfin though or agree with their opinions just because the give us freeware or I'm afraid they will not make anything again. I'm also not going to say ones work "sucks" or it looks like crap either. Were I come from that isn't NICE. Jeeze all I said was the logo, letter and liveries are Trademarks and Copyrights of Major Airlines. If you reproduce them without consent of the original owners then it isn't right. I didn't know I was trying to bring the whole damn sim world down :-roll

[Guest CharlesH]

Hi:You don't understand that Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue. I am sure if you pose your question to AVSIM legal staff you would find out that what is going on in AVSIM is perfectly legal. I am sure AVSIM with its world wide exposure would not allow anything illegal going on here. That would not happen as they would be liable for high legal bills, fines, ect. What would have been ideal, was this whole thing could have been resolved behind closed doors. Without exposing people on a world wide forum to this sort of garbage. Your intentions may have been noble, but nevertheless, I cannot speak for the others, I feel like you indeed hurt people, who should not have put up with this sort of stuff. Life is too short, and we are drifting away form a sense of community this forum provided. Lets move on.Charles

[michal]

Charles,I am afraid we have to leave Jeff alone in his own world since no 'legal' argument will change his mind. What better way to muddle the whole thing by turning a victim into a criminal. Brilliant ! Lets wait for more pathetic posts and .. I agree garbage .. of the same kind.Michael J.

[Guest]

Yes I'm going away. No I still feel it's wrong to pass judgement on others when the one who passes the judgement did the very same thing. That is the whole point. Even in the posts the ones who were taking a vacation because of personal attacks and felt like they were being picked on attacked others just because of an opinon. I guess it's ok for them because they give freeware. As far as involving Avsim. Avsim is perfectly legal they didn't copy the works or upload them. They also havent had a Cease and Desist order to remove files from an airline yet.Mike, This issue isn't about condoning what happened. It's about others saying something is wrong but it's OK for them to do it. This is what happened. If you were found guilty of murder, would it be ok if I went and murdered someone? I think not. That what this is all about again. No other alterior motive going on :-roll. I'm a firm beleiver whats wrong for one isn't right for the other. Thats what this is about.Now for the 80 thousandth time I was not the one who started the debate to begin with regarding using someone elses work. I just posted my opinion on it. I'm sure someone else will chime in on the bandwagon though.Hopefully AVSIM will lock this one down too.Jeff

[Guest Matt Johnson]

Mr Cole,If you have a problem with what certain people are doing, I suggest you: a) learn about what you are complaining about, and :( take it privately. We will not tolerate character assassination here.End Of Topic.--M