Please help me understand (very long)

[Guest]

I'm going to put quotes of Mike Stone, Anniette aka alpha, and Don Moser here. Please help me understand better what they mean.This mess all started with:Alpha writes:"Alpha Member since Apr-17-02583 posts Sep-06-02, 07:53 PM (EDT) "Stolen textures" put clear lables on my textures to say no modification No copying at all files are encoded .yet in the library today my files are posted without my permissionFS2002 Aircraft Pan Am Gmax Boeing 727-221 Bejae Taylor 286k 6 06-Sep-2002 This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying ,Just because someone is to lazy to do it themselves I am really anoyed about this and am not going to bother if people are going to just steal peoples work ."But then Alpha writes: "I have a Logo that is on Mike site ,I did not know it was there ,when i found MY Logo On his Site (without my Permission)I was Really PROUD to have it there and Real Glad for the FREE advertising."Which is it is it? "This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying" or is it I have a Logo that is on Mike site ,I did not know it was there ,when i found MY Logo On his Site (without my Permission)I was Really PROUD to have it there and Real Glad for the FREE advertising."Then Alpha writes: "These People are really Bullies ,they do not produce things for community they do not help people with problems ,they do not come to share experiance ,They come to contradict people ,critisize and make people feel small ,This make them feel Big and Important and this is there Life work.THey say alot about "their Opinion and entitlement to it but If a intention is to damage then I disagree they should keep their opinion."What is the difference of Alpha writing: "FS2002 Aircraft Pan Am Gmax Boeing 727-221 Bejae Taylor 286k 6 06-Sep-2002 This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying ,Just because someone is to lazy to do it themselves" and " "These People are really Bullies ,they do not produce things for community they do not help people with problems ,they do not come to share experiance ,They come to contradict people ,critisize and make people feel small ,This make them feel Big and Important and this is there Life work." This guy produced something ("(without my Permission) Then you write ("I was Really PROUD to have it there and Real Glad for the FREE advertising.") Then you write "critisize and make people feel small" but then you write "someone is to lazy to do it themselves" and accuse the work of being stolen but you say "I was Really PROUD to have it there and Real Glad for the FREE advertising." Now I can't Figure out what it is? I'm confused.Don Writes: "I dislike people on self pronounced causes too."What would this comment by Alpha be? "This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying ,Just because someone is to lazy to do it themselves I am really anoyed about this and am not going to bother if people are going to just steal peoples work ."Please help me understand?Don Writes: "I am call them idiots because of their presentation and self appointed rightousness. Running people out of production and off the forums and into hiding and the little "jabs" along the way is "out of line"the little jabs". Sure we can get on with it. Maybe rallying the troops against people like that is what is needed then sitting on your hands hoping it will go away. If each time an idiot like this comes along and we loose 2-3 designers, how long do you think it will be until there are none. You do the math."But Alpha can write:"FS2002 Aircraft Pan Am Gmax Boeing 727-221 Bejae Taylor 286k 6 06-Sep-2002 This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying ,Just because someone is to lazy to do it themselves I am really anoyed about this and am not going to bother if people are going to just steal peoples work ." Running off this guy but then say "(without my Permission)I was Really PROUD to have it there and Real Glad for the FREE advertising."Someone was "run out of production and off forums and into Hiding and the little jabs" were made against him because Alpha accused him of stealing then said "This is My work it is stolen from me and it is really anoying ,Just because someone is to lazy to do it themselves" Then Don writes "I am call them idiots because of their presentation and self appointed rightousness." but thne Don says the "little jabs"Don Writes:"It is clearly marked NOT TO BE USED WITHOUT PERMISSION. That is NOT an open ticket to do as you please. She should NOT have to stop doing repaints. It is NOT an ego trip. THIEVES like this joker need to be stopped from doing it. PERIOD. When you do something you are told not to do, it is WRONG where I come from. Why is it so hard for some of you folks to understand this? Maybe every GD designer needs to just quit and let the whiners and complainers supply the FS world with everything. I'm about heading there myself. I can't stand being surrounded with such irrational thinking. Lets try this one. You write a computer software program. (remember now...it's only little electrons on a disc) and you give it to me. I add 1 word to it and then distribute it as mine. Is THAT the correct way? No damned difference! It's theft! I have a hard time dealing with people who side with the bad guys.Don" but Don wites "I am call them idiots because of their presentation and self appointed rightousness." Then Don writes "I am tired of all this destructive criticism and attacks on others.: Which is it? Youv'e certainly attacked me in your posts.Then Don writes:Don Writes:"It's HER work. She can put what ever restrictions SHE wants to on it. It belongs to HER. All she asks is for the potential user to ASK. THAT isn't asking too much. Just ASK! " But then says "It is common practice to use the airline names and logos. Been going on for years." Don I have agreed with that from the get go but you call me "the sim alqaida" and have been flamed up and down for just saying that if you repaint a logo or a livery why don't you ask permission since it is copyrighted and trademarked. Now I'm a troulblemaker.Mike Stone writes:I'm sorry, but I have to differ. I'm not a lawyer, but I own several registered copyrights and I've been thru the whole course, so I have some meager knowledge on the subject. It is absolutely not necessary to register or file anything. Any original artisitic creation automatically becomes the sole property of the creator and is immediately protected by state, federal and international law. Use of said property, especially in direct violation of the owners explicit written instructions to the contrary is THEFT, pure, simple and indisputable. Go into an art galery some time. Take one of the paintings and paint your name over the original artist's and put it up in your own galery. Don't be shocked when (not if) you end up in handcuffs, and it won't matter whether the artist registered his copyright or not. Just because a graphical work (like aircraft textures) is in electronic form does not make it any less the property of the creator and any less grievous for someone to apply the sticky finger discount.Mike Stone"Mike Stone Writes:"Wow, I'm not sure I know how to respond to this. Let me see if I got this right. Someone takes Anniette's property, which was clearly marked as such, and uses it without her permission. So now the guy that took it is portrayed as a poor innocent bystander, who was within his legal rights, and is being wrongly accused while Anniette is viewed as a scoundrel because she had the audacity to object? If there was even the slightest chance that this was an innocent accident you might have a point. But this was as blatent an act as can be. Look at Anniette's original post again. Look at the pictures. Tell me there was any chance whatsoever that this person could be mistaken into believing that he had the right to use those textures.Mike Stone"Then Mike writes: Mike Stone writes: "My last say on this....Ok, Ok, stop chearing.I went to a lawyer who deals in copyright/trademark law. I explained this mess to him. He said there is no fundamental problem in freeware authors basing their work on real life airline liveries. Unless, and only if, the airline in question chooses to object. He said until such a time as the airline does notify the person using their logo to stop doing so, THERE IS NOT A PROBLEM, per the fair use doctrine. He also pointed out that only the airline in question or their legally appointed representative have the right to pass judgement on the use of the their property or set conditions on its use. He said that for anyone else to do so was, in his humble opinion, a more serious issue than the use of the trademark to begin with. So, from the standpoint of this freeware author, I will continue to create aircraft painted in the livery of commercial airlines, UNTIL such a time as I personally receive notice from a LEGALLY APPOINTED REPRESENTATIVE of the airline, that I am not to. At that time I will stop. Period.Mike Stone"Then Garry writes: "" concur with you Mike, When and if we receive a formal request from a representative of an airline organistation then we cease that particular work - until then all other "opinions" can/will be ignored.As a matter of interest - I also sort consultation with international copyright authorities (as part of my real world work sometimes borders on this issue) and their response was similar to the one you got in relation to fair use doctrine and ceasing only if/when requested to do so formally by a legal representative. In fact they also advised that in some circumstances related to creative artwork in an alternative media that sales (with consideration to consent requirements if highlighted) can be made. Anyway - like you I am just feed up with the issue but will continue to paint textures - particularly your aircraft if you don't mind."Don wrote"All she asks is for the potential user to ASK. THAT isn't asking too much. Just ASK! "Then Matt Johnson writes: "Mr Cole,If you have a problem with what certain people are doing, I suggest you: a) learn about what you are complaining about, and :( take it privately. We will not tolerate character assassination here.End Of Topic.--M""We will not tolerate character assassination here."My character has been raked over the coals. All because I respect others work. I wasn't the one who brought the issue public in the first place. Its ok for others to take it public though. Thats what I comprehend what your saying.Now I'm really confused :) People all I was trying to say was respect others work. Ask for permission if you don't get a reply I feel you shouldn't paint it. But if you do thank the airline for using the logo. If you use someones "BMP" file ask for permission. If you don't get a reply then I feel you shouldn't use it. But if you do then thank the original author for using their logo or "BMP"I have said this from the get go. Why must people interpret that as bashing freeware. Then interpret that as I support theives. Then Call me names, flame me, and want me to go?I never said I want to drive freeware authors away. I never said anything negative towards there designs but there again I am labeled because some feel they have the right to. Anniett I'm glad your back. That is the honest truth!!!!! Flame away some more please!!!

[rcbarend 37]

Jeff,I haven't followed the discussion entirely., nor can I understand the conglomerate of quotes above.But, assuming you are sincere, there's obviously a misunderstanding between you and those desingers: either they read wrong, or you write wrongm or any combination.... (I don't know, nor want to have an opinion)But in any case, if you are as sincere as you claim: stop this "who's right", because it's obviously too late.Move on, and next time try to be a bit more carefull with your remarks in forums; so there's no chance of them being misinterpreted.Rob (a freeware designer)

[Guest]

Yes, let it rest. The same things have been said over and over and over.:-beerchug

[FS Robert 52]

AMEN! :-bigangel This Hobby Just Keeps Getting Better... :-yellow1Kind RegardsRobert

[Donmo 6]

Jeff....listen with both ears. DROP IT ALREADY!!!!!! We are all tired of this. Everyone on the planet is tired of this. You are the only one interested and you are starting to harrass us all with this. Please stop. No flaming, no harsh words. Just STOP! Rather then wasting valuable time and space here, put your literary talents to work and give us a review to read. Lot of new things have hit and you would be helping the community then, rather then re-running this. Please buddy, STOP already. Thank you.Don

[Guest]

Don,Hi buddy does this go for you and other with topics like these below as well?I spoke and it ended on Monday but then by Wednesday someone starts it back up reflecting on "the past days" or "to all critics"I am fine with moving on but that means MOVING ON no more flames no more "reflecting" I spoke my opinion and you all spoke yours. I can see your points and frankly I with you on asking permission, and in regards of using others work.http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8http://ftp.avsim.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboa...orum=DCForumID8Jeff

[Guest]

>I spoke and it ended on Monday but then by Wednesday someone >starts it back up reflecting on "the past days" or "to all >critics" No Jeff, if you had sincerely ended it for yourself, you would have not started yet another thread. I'm tired of sitting by waiting for you to get the hint from the majority of the forum and quit harrassing other members of the forum. And yes, I have seen some get quite personal with you in response but that would not have happened had you refrained from starting the subject you did and then continually bringing it up again. This has gone on long enough and now you've made yourself not welcome in the forums.To the rest of you that may be tempted to make any comments about Jeff being removed from the forums, if you have to say something, please send it in email to me rather than adding more to this subject in the forums. Thanks