HiI was planning to upgrade my AGP card to ATI X800XL untill i read the forum here at AVSIM.. I read that instead of going for a new AGP card its better to move to a new Mainboard and processor.... here is my current system spec.P4 2.66 Ghz ProcessorABIT IT7-MAX2 V2.0 Mainboard1GB DDR (333)2X120 GB HDDATI 9700 AIW 128 MB GraphicsAudigy2 Platinum EX with Cambridge sound system.Well thats about the main parts on my machine at the moment. Now I am thinking of switching to AMD platform with PCI-E rather than upgrading my Graphics card, but i am bit confused with all the boards out there.. I have a few doubts about the boards and the PCI-E cards... I would appreciate if you could advice me on this situation...1.I am planning for AMD Athlon 64 4000+ 939 processor. if i choose this processor which would be the best mother board to go for... I know the NForce is the best chipset out there for gaming (mainly FS).... 2.If choose a board based on Nforce (SLI).. can i go for an ATI PCI Express card? or should i stick to Nvidia cards? 3.Based on the above... is there any chance that i can reuse parts from my current system.. like the RAM,Sound card etc. i am pretty sure that HDD and other drives would be ok to use... (please correct me if i am wrong)I would appreciate if any one could help me on the above doubts...Thanks in advancePrav

Hi Prav,Indeed, your system is in need of an upgrade for FS9. Let me take each of your questions in turn.1. Good choice of processor there. The next step up would be the Athlon64 FX chips but those are significantly more expensive for a relatively small performance gain. I'm telling you this because if you want the absolute best thing out there, you can still go one notch higher. But if you are like the rest of us, the Athlon64 4000+ should do very nicely. (Also, FYI, dual-core chips are just around the corner, say another 6-8 weeks? It won't help FS much but could help quite a bit if you do a lot of multitasking.)Best motherboard to go with your CPU would be the DFI LanParty nF4 SLI-DR. See: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2358&p=212. You can certainly go with an ATI PCIe card. In fact, I would recommend ATI over nVidia. Given your choice of processor, I'm guessing your budget should be quite big, in which case you should consider the ATI X850XT PE.3. To get best performance out of your machine, you should get new RAM. Since you are getting such a high-end CPU, you should make sure that the latencies are low. With the Athlon64, latencies are much more important than FSB speed. Consider the OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2. See: http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2226You can certainly keep your sound card. HDD and other drives you can keep but you may also want to consider getting SATA drives. The performance gain is minimal right now but you get the benefit of smaller cables (and thus, better airflow in your case).One important piece of hardware you have not mentioned is your power supply. The PSU is often neglected but you really should not skimp on this (as Dell often does). The PSU can at times, make-or-break your system. And with the high-end hardware I have suggested here, you'll want a very stable and reliable power supply. I would go for at least 400W and a reputable brand e.g. Zalman, Antec etc. If you can afford it, I suggest the Antec NeoPower 480W.Good luck and hope this helps!Edwin

Hi Thanks for the quick response.. and yes it did help a lot... well i dont have a big budget.. but still dont wanna be in a situation where i have to upgrade in another 6 months..:) thats why i chose that processor... About the RAM is it absolutely necessary that i should upgrade it or is it something that i can wait with... i mean can use the current ones.... I am currently using a 400+W PSU from ANTEC so it shoudnt be a problem i guess.. About the graphics card I am thinking of Sapphire X800XL 512 PCI-E now.I am using ANTEC PlusView1000AMG -EU cabinet at the moment... will this be able to accomodate the new board?any other thought..Thanks again for the help..cheersPrav

Hi Prav,I didn't know too much about your video card but I did some research for you. Take a look here:http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2299&p=8http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2406&p=2The first article shows that the X800XL could indeed be a great card for those on a budget. However, I urge you to take note of the last page (the conclusion) of the second article. I quote: "Without a significantly lower price tag, the new 512MB board inadvertently competes with ATI's X850 XT, which is clearly the better performer." I haven't checked what the price tag is of the X800XL 512MB that you want to buy but if it costs as much as the article implies, then you should be able to afford the X850XT. If not, perhaps you could just get the 256MB version of the X800XL.As for RAM, I seem to disagree a little with Jaap (also on this board) here. I believe PC3200 is necessary here to get the performance that you want out of your CPU. If I were you, I'd get the PC3200 RAM and get a slightly slower CPU if necessary. And even if you can't afford the top-of-the-line RAM with ultra-low latencies, you could just get brand-name "generic" RAM. Note well: when I say generic, I don't mean no-name stuff (notice I said brand-name). By brand-name generic, I mean go for brand names you can recognize like Corsair, OCZ, Crucial etc. but not necessarily their top-of-the-line products.Regarding case, I don't know your case but it should be fine. Any case that supports ATX (which has been the standard for 5+ years) should do fine.Again, hope this helps.Edwin

@ Edwin, >As for RAM, I seem to disagree a little with Jaap (also on this board) here.< First you say I'm wrong and now you want to disagree a little... What's the point? My input towards the other user was just to indicate the alternative of being able to upgrade to a nForce4 and a PCI-e display adapter and that he could opt to get 'better' RAM later. So, please don't take me out of context? Thanks @ Prav, - Low and ultra-low latencies is spending a lot of money for practically nothing at all (IMHO). A common user will get much more out of a carefully tuned system (in case). Latencies were important in the good 'ol SD-RAM days but aren't any longer (AFAIK). - Get as much CPU as you can for FS. The 4000 is great and the 3700 'San Diego' maybe the next best alternative. - Ideally, you would adjust the display adapter to the display (aka resolution) you require. A simple analogy I often use, is, it makes no sense at all to get a X800 for a 800x600 resolution. - Case you don't want to spend too much money in one go, continuing to use your RAM is always an option (@ a little performance penalty). Continued use of all the other components like HDs, sound cards etc shouldn't be a problem. Only if you intend to swap to XP64 too, you'll need to evaluate the driver situation. - If you find the DFIs too expensive, good, 'decently priced' and well documented nForce4 mainboards come from Asus, Epox, etc. Perhaps download the manual before making final choices? Hope this adds to thoughts, good luck and kind regards Jaap

hiThanks for the input guys.... Kinda agree with both you guys.... So does that mean I can mix the RAMs as well if needed? About Athlon 64 is there any major difference in performance based on the core.. I am looking at San diego one... hope its good...Once again thanks for the help..cheersPrav

Well i'm upgrading video card only because i think my sim will run better with a faster and more memory video card, such as the x800 or x850 xt 256mb, my current system is p4 3.0ghz and 1 gig ram pc3200 and ati 9800 pro 128mb. If you can upgrade video card and get the faster ram as far as the p4 get something around 3.0 and up prices aren't so bad right now, of course if your mobo can handle this. I know its abit contrary to what the other guys mentioned but im in this situation too and this is what i decided to do. It will buy me about a year of performance before fs 2006 comes out which will probably require a new system anyway!Just my 2 cents. Feel free to jump in guys i haven't gone for the plunge yet!

Hi Prav, 'mixing' PC2700 modules with 400MHz CPUs is no problem and only results in a little bit less performance (a few %). However, it's not recommended to mix various types of RAM modules with AMD64 CPUs. For various reasons. What you can do is i.e. use your current modules (guessing you have 2pcs) and then decide later on whether you go for 2x512MB or 2x1GB PC3200. Some AMD64 CPUs don't like to see more than 2 RAM modules (specially 512MB or larger). This is because the CPU controls the memory (--> no longer the mainboard chipset) and the CPU is thus the determining factor. Therefore and generally put, the safest and easiest is to think in terms of max 2 modules. An exception could be to get 4x256MB PC3200. This will usually safeguard not occupiing too many so called RAM banks (which -pls note- has nothing to do with the RAM slots). But who buys 256MB modules nowadays? :-) There shouldn't be a performance difference with the various cores. Hope this adds to thoughts, good luck and kind regards Jaap @ Joe, the same is probably valid for you too regarding display adapters. I think a 256-bit/256MB card is an optimal solution for 1280x. Hence, even the non-pro X800 (avoid 'SE' and alike!) w/ 12 pipelines, 256-bit and 256MB will be more than sufficient to give you max performance @ 1280x and the assurance your GPU isn't holding you back. For example; the HIS X800 IceQ (which expells the hot air directly out of the case and costs ca 250-300 US$). Please note though, it's likely you will not see an a FPS improvement. You'll 'only' be able to crank up some GPU settings. But I guess you're aware...

Jaap,I have no intention of starting any type of argument here, especially since both of us are only here for one thing: to help out fellow FSers in their hardware choices. However, I did want to explain that I don't believe I took your comments out of context and (IMHO) there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with each other. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, I fully respect yours and I hope you respect mine.You mentioned that PC2700 only yields marginal performance difference (as compared to PC3200) when paired up with an Athlon64. I disagree because I think the use of PC2700 will not only cripple the memory speed but also the CPU speed. Unfortunately, I have no Athlon64 to test this so you may well be correct. (Truthfully speaking, I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle, that the magnitude of the difference depends on which application you use.) But I do believe that spending a bit more to get PC3200 (and/or sacrificing a bit of raw CPU speed) would be better to make sure you get full performance out of the new CPU. In that respect, I'm not sure we even disagree at all!Edwin

Hi Edwin, no worries, we're indeed only trying to be informative. And we'll obviuosly agree that using PC2700 RAM in 400MHz systems isn't the optimal solution. However, for people looking to upgrade either step by step or trying to press everything out of a budget, using the 'wrong' RAM is always an option and -frankly- the option I'ld prefer in case of being able to upgrade 3 of the 4 main PC components (being CPU, board, RAM and GPU). You mention 'crippling performance', how's that defined? Is loosing a couple of % in general performance already crippling? I hardly believe so. At the risk of sounding repetitive, inserting PC2700 modules into a PC3200 system results in a few % performance loss, no more. It equates to ca. 1 lost frame at 20fps. Unfortunately (and sometimes fortunately!), performance in- or decreases aren't linear. From personal experience (not everybody are tinkerers like us), the best RAM one can select is the most compatible. I've got RAM sticks with which certain systems won't even boot... In such cases, people without a standard spare RAM-module on the side (to manipulate the bios away from the SPD presets) are at loss. Therefore, my philosophy upon advising (hopefully!) is plug and play, not plug and pray. :-)I appreciate your time and efforts to help other people out. And sticking one's head out in this field is pretty difficult sometimes. I'll also agree that opinions are involved when it comes to i.e. display adapter preferences, but when technical realities are mis-interpreted, I hope you don't mind if I jump in from time to time and try to clarify and/or add to considerations. IMHO, it's the joint effort and experience which makes this forum so special. Thanks for your efforts, good luck and kind regards Jaap (also an (ex-) HK boy btw)

Thanks to you guys.. people like us can make up our minds..Well after reading all the suggestions i have finally made up my mind for the upgrade parts..New partsAMD Athlon 64 4000 (San Diego)DFI LanParty nF4 SLI-DR Main Board1GB OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev. 2Hightech X850 XT Platinum Edition AGP 256Mb VIVO IceQDRD RW Drive (not decided on the brand)Old Parts2X120 GB HDDCreative Audigy2 Platinum EX Creative Inspire Surround Speakers400W ANTEC PSUANTEC AMG TowerDVD DriveCDRW DriveMicrosoft Sidewinder2 force feedback JoystickHopefully this should take me through FS2006 as well ;). I hope an X850 will not cause any issues on a NFORCE platform... please advice...Once again thanks for all your inputs and helping me choosing this spec.. please feel free to suggest any changes to the above..ThanksPrav

Hi Prav, wow, looks like a great sys! Good luck. The only details which pop into sight, you'll need an PCI-e card and not an AGP one. I'ld recommend getting a X800XL which is probably cheaper than the X850XT. You'll perhaps also need a new PSU as the nForce4 mainboard requires a 24-pole ATX connector which your old PSU probably doesn't have. I'ld equally suggest to download the mainboard manual and i.e. read the recommendations regarding PSUs before going ahead. Mainboard manuals are great opportunities to get aquainted with new hardware. The IceQs are great and I like the concept of blowing the hot GPU air directly out of the case. I've got a couple of them and HIS is a reliable manufacturer. If you're using TFTs, perhaps make sure you get a display adapter with 2 DVI connectors? HIS offers PCI-e X800XL IceQs with 2xDVI at fairly 'reasonable' prices. Hope this adds to thoughts, good luck and kind regards Jaap

Hi Prav,Jaap has been giving you great advice so not much to add here. If you can afford it, certainly go for the X850XT PE (since you seem to have budgeted for it) but Jaap is right in that the difference would not be that great, at least in FS9.As for DVD burner choices, I heard great things about the NEC ND-3520A. You may want to check that out although don't expect much of a performance differential among drives (except for Plextor, which is noticeably faster but also costs a very significant premium).Hope this helps.Edwin

Hi Jaap,I'm glad we have come to an understanding on this. FWIW, I'm the type of shopper who either doesn't buy at all or when I do buy, then I go for the absolute top-of-the-line. That's why when I tend to make suggestions, I tend to push the limits of people's budgets. It's also because of this that I tend to know less about the performance differences in combining new hardware with 'old' hardware (like Athlon64 with PC2700 RAM).Having said all this, I wanted to say that despite all the hardware suggestions I have made on this board, I haven't upgraded for some time so I'm using a pretty dated system. Here are my (current) specs:Intel Pentium 4 3.40GHz Northwood core (@3.8GHz)Corsair Hydrocool HC-200 water cooling systemASUS P4C800-E Deluxe motherboardCorsair TWINX1024-4000PRO RAMGrandmars ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with 128MB RAM (Catalyst 5.6)Zalman ZM400A-APF power supplyLite-on 52x32x32 CD-RW driveLite-on 16X DVD-ROM driveCreative Labs Audigy 2 ZS sound cardCooler Master ATC-110 caseKlipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 speakersViewsonic VP201b 20.1" LCD screen with an Optiquest V75 17" CRTMicrosoft Wireless Optical Desktop Pro keyboard & mouseMicrosoft Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystickI'm waiting for AMD's dual-core to be more widely available before taking the next plunge. I know dual-core won't make much difference at all in FS9 but I do use my computer for other things and with the market moving to dual-core, I don't want to be left behind with a single-core CPU. The other struggle I'm having is that I've fallen in love with Mac OS X after buying a Mac mini and I have my eyes on a Power Mac purchase soon.Anyhow, I just thought I'd share that.Take care,Edwin

Thanks for the suggestions guys.... Jaap.. I did hear about this PSU issue, but i also heard that there is an adapter available which can convert a 20 pin into the new one... I am purchasing these parts from the UK and then travelling to India where i will be assembling it ...... so the extra weight costs ;)... so if i use this adapter will there be any issues?About the card....since the chipset is from Nvidia....will there be a performance issue if I go for an ATI card over Geforce 6800GT?Whats your thought on the ATI chipset is it any good? I am asking all these because....like i mentioned before i am purchasing it here and assembling back home.. so if there is somethin better around the corner i dont wanna miss it :)..because all these highend stuff will cost a fortune in India... :(Thanks a lot your help Jaap and Edwin...cheersPrav