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Chopper Testing Requests!!!

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Hi all of you!!!!In order to get the upcoming testing reports done here on the site, I'm asking you for some input....mainly what model of chopper you would like to have it testing..on items like realism etc..also on how it does fly within the sim itself. I had this kind of thread before..but not much respons on that...hey I don't mind!!! But it gives non real life pilots a sense of more of "one of the guys" in the chopper world........hell why aren't there more women "flyers" around here....So give me some choppers!!!....Sure the MD500 of Bjorn is already on the list (naturaly!!) and I got my own OH-58 air-file modified Bell 206...but as this site belongs to all of you helo simmers...better give me your input!!....and what happened to the other real experienced chopper jocks??????? They can sure help on this site!WishesShoshana :-smile12

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EC-135 and bk-117 :)Richard GreenVATUSA4Events and VA Director

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Would LOVE to see a good UH60 Blackhawk... by the way, I don't know whether you saw, but I got the Kingair up and down at Edwards. That's an awesome package..Richard :-bigangel

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Hi Shoshana,And welcome back!I think your suggestion is a great idea (Test Pilot?) for our site!:-beerchugI have recently done some work on the H500D (files posted on Frank's Site) and more recently on the 206B... after a couple of hours in the copilot seat with my friend - who 'drives' one... I feel it now handles a little closer to the real thing viz power/weight ratios! The major problem in air/cfg modifications I found is that there are usually just 2 courses of action:As you know the development of the Heli flight model in FS was primarily introduced in FS98 with the 206B (and that flew like a 'Grand-Piano-with Wings'!) and in that SIM they utilised the 'Jet' Flight Dynamics in their original codeing.... From 2000 up MS have reworked the air file (slightly) and now the associated Jet Engine 'code' does not show up - but the rest of the FD still largely relates to the earlier fixed-wing FD. As a result it cannot be 'tweaked' quite as easily (as the FS98 air file) unless you replace it with earlier air file from the FS98 era - I did this and the results (I guess) are similar to your own? I guess MS developers also like to 'cut and paste' :)Shoshana - how many of these did YOU see during your work "Aircraft initialization failure" pain in the butt message eh?The SDK refers to the Scalars used (FS2002) and it references the 'easy flight model'.... ("The low_realism_stability_scale parameter scales the stability of the Bell 206B helicopter in low realism settings to make the aircraft easier to fly. The stability factor is divided into three components: pitch, roll, and yaw damping").... I cant seem to find out whether this Scalar value is changed in the user-settings drop box... I cant however see that because it would have to write to the CFG file and it doesnt! :(anyway, enough on the 206B!The Robinson R-22 and R-22 beta, are also a couple of my favourites!My favourite however is the Aloutte (lark) II from the 60's, which was like the Huey - originally Commercial before it was accepted by the Military in France (for sure in South Africa) and several other Countries.... Shoshana, it goes without saying that it is very refreshing to have a bunch of people in this forum who all have a passion for helicopters and want to create a growing SIM sub-group!Happy Flying:-rotor

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There's a Bell 407 with deployable floats that'd be nice to know more about. And I heard the Cobra at simviation is pretty good.

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I downloaded that one... it has that great huey thump sound as well. very cool.R.

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I'd like to know what a real pilot thinks of Dwight Booth's Hueys. The huey is the first flying machine to every capture my imagination and I've been flying them alot now that I've got my chopper skills under control. Booth's Huey has a distinctive pendulum feel to it. If you stop to fast and the fusilage gets too far out ahead of the rotor, you swing way back easily. I don't know if this is realistic, but it seems logical since the Huey is quite a bit heavier than the 206b.

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Hi Shoshana,how about comparing Fly2 and FS2002 with the standard bell? :-) Since I don't own FS yet, it would be interesting...But the most interesting thing would be how the helos compare to the real world. Would be great to read about someones experience of both worlds... That's what I really miss, since I'm a "realism fanatic"! I think I'll never fly a real helo, so let's get those sims to the max.Regards,Robert.:-rotorEDCJ

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Well it's time I waded into this discussion.Firstly, I am not a real world pilot, though I have over 8000 hrs in the air, only a few hundred of which were stick time (single props, twin turbo props, jet trainer, Hueys, Kiowas and a couple of hours of Chinook time). So take my comments with a grain of salt.Regardless of which aircraft one intends to model in a flightsim, the limitations of simming Vs realism always come to an impasse at this juncture:1. A 17" (or any other size) monitor in 2D and a multitwistwhizbang joystick do NOT duplicate flight, regardless of the sim used.2. Without the tangible intangibles (seat of the pants feel, peripheral visual cues, auditory stimuli etc) it gets real difficult to feel "simmed".3. Without tactile input/output there is little correllation between a 60 dollar sim and a 50 million airplane.There is a sim to land the LEM on the moon http://www.wright-flyer.net/desertaviation/eagle/index.htmlBut how one could possibly say it is REAL is beyond me.Ergo, what I am saying is simply this:For those who demand ultra realism and insist on "this" mod and "that" tweak, forget it. At the end of the day it's still a 2D mathematical model that will ALWAYS be flawed unless you are willing to spend 15 million USD for a state of the art CAE sim.However, I will say that that certain criteria can still be reasonably well modelled, and we, as end users, should not settle for GEEWHIZ factors, but instead settle for the closest mathematical model we can acheive.

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Hi Shoshana,are you still in SA ???I just got back and will now have to put some time into the chopper world again ;-)My favourite all time chopper is the UH-1D and all of it's variants. I have a few on my disk, but really no idea how well they are modelled. I'd be gratefull if you'd have a look at those of course ! ;-)Perhaps compare them with the Alouette you sent me? We'd need some sort of 'comparison standard'. Take for instance the default Bell that comes with FS2002 and your 'tweaked' Alouette and use those two for reference. That will then give your tests a frame we can compare choppers in.I saw some posts again (in this threads and others) questioning the reality factor of sims. Since we all know this is just a $ 70 'game, we need some in-game reference models so we will not be discussing how well any virtual chopper behaves compared to the real one, but how it behaves in terms of simulated flight characteristics and get some idea of ranking compared to the default thing.Just my $ .02Francois :-outta Francois :-wave[table border=0 cellpadding=10 cellspacing=0][tr][td valign=bottom" align="center]"At home in the wild"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:avsim.com/alaska/alaska_051.htm|Don's Alaskan Bush Charters]"Beavers Lead the Way"[/td][td valign=bottom" align="center][link:www.avsim.com/vfr_center/mainpages/vfr_flights_main_page.htm]VFR Flight Center]"Looking Good Outside"[/td][/tr][tr][td valign=top" align="center]http://avsim.com/hangar/air/bfu/logo70.gif[/td][td valign="top" align="left" colspan=2]http://ftp.avsim.com/dcforum/User_files/3cdd6a6a60efc7f5.gif[/td][tr][/table]________________________Francois A. "Navman" DumasAssociate Editor &Forums AdministratorAVSIM Online![/bemail: fdumas@avsim.com________________________

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