I've had about a week to play with FS9. There are several things I like about it, and several that I don't. Unfortunately, when it comes to helicopters, I'm wondering whether the new R22 was worth the tradeoffs in how the other helicopters now behave (both the stock '206 and aftermarket aircraft). The end result is that I will probably be keeping ol' faithful FS2002 on the disk indefinitely (until 2006?).The R22 visual model is great, and the VC/instrument panel look great as well. It seems to be a little more nimble in its flight characteristics than the 206, as it should. However, the autorotational capability is just flat broken. Another poster says that he's learned how to auto it, but the technique required sure ain't the way it's done in real life. (In the real R22, you have just over a second in average conditions (i.e. not on takeoff! - otherwise you may have less) to lower the collective after an engine failure - otherwise you may very well die that day rather than Another.) I personally have not been able to survive an autorotation in FS2004's R22 using conventional control inputs. (I have not yet started tweaking the flight model parameters - that's next I guess.)Given that the R22 is the most popular trainer helo out there these days, I'm a bit alarmed that MS managed to miss the mark so completely on this very important maneuver.But it doesn't end there. In FS2002, the stock Bell 206 has a reasonably authentic autorotation - i.e. if you chop the fuel controller (ctrl-F1) and leave the collective up, your rotor rpm will decay to the point of non-recoverability - the rotor stalls and you fall out of the sky. On the other hand (the good one), if you drop the collective in a reasonable amount of time the rotor RPM stays in the green and you can execute an autorotation without too much fuss. It seems a little whacked in terms of how much rotor intertia is modeled - that is, it has waaaaaay too much of that and you kind of have to milk out the "pitch pull" at the bottom of the maneuver to not hop way back up in the sky again at the bottom. But overall it does this pretty well (better than other PC-based helo sims).In FS2004, if you duplicate the control inputs that were applied in FS2002 at fuel chop - i.e. drop the collective to the bottom - the rotor RPM will decay right along with the engine RPM rather than "splitting the needles" as it should (engine RPM goes down, rotor RPM doesn't (much) if you drop the collective). What I found out last night is that I can pull a little bit of collective after and the rotor RPM will stay in the green. This is TOTALLY WRONG and actually backwards from the way it should work.Also, the FS2004 '206 is (IMO) quite a bit harder to fly than that in '2002 in conventional maneuvers. As I have probably already posted somewhere here, it reminds me of the FS2000 helicopter, which I always described as having a giant bowling ball strapped to the rotor mast - IMO that one was pretty much unflyable. Does anyone else agree that we've taken a step backwards here?Moving to third party aircraft, the story doesn't seem to get any better. My favorite freeware helo, Digital-Flight.com's modded '206, now exhibits some of the same weird autorotational characteristics as the stock one, and it's not as stable in normal as it used to be.The only upside to the FS2004 flight modeling that I have been able to discern is that it does now model the requirement for pedal input to control yaw (e.g. on takeoff). It's not nearly enough, but it's more than what FS2002 (none). In all RL non-Stability Augmented helicopters (e.g. MD900), you *have* to apply pedal input on lift-off or else you'll be spinning like a top.I hope that we can overcome these issues via flight model/.cfg file hacks, but I've got a nasty feeling that this new, "bad" behavior is buried too deeply in the sim for those wily aircraft artists out there to do much about it.Comments? Fixes? I'd love to hear them, especially "fixes".blue skies,Dave Blevins

Hey Dave, unfortunately no fixes here, just comments and observations. I agree that the flight models are different than what I (we) are used to. The bell is sluggish and less responsive and the R22 is like it is stuck to the tarmac with velcro on lift off! LOL I am a bit more optimistic than you that the FD will be improved upon. I am however enjoying the 222 and the Ec130 quite a bit though.Most of my heli/ fixed wing flying is VFR and in that area FS9 is suberb! I cannot even make a flight in Fs2002 anymore without being dissapointed in the visuals, so I don't. Luckily my performance is also better in FS9, so once I get my aircraft all loaded and teaked, I will think more about the flight dynamics and hopefully I will be able to make those better as well, then we can all enjoy FS9! LOLRegards, Michaelhttp://mysite.verizon.net/res052cd/mybannercva1.jpgCalVirAir International VAwww.calvirair.comCougar Mountain Helicopters & Aviationwww.cgrmtnhelos.com

Hey Dave, Another comment or two. You are right about the stock choppers in FS2004. The 206 is real easy to get into that uncontrolled flying situation where the only out is to restart, you cannot even crash the bird. Hovering the 206 is nothing like the FS2002. Hope someone can get the correction that was added in FS2002 built into FS2004. From what I have read, there are no updates planned.... Well, somebody that knows what they are doing had better start looking at the product they released..... It needs H E L P....Al

"It's not nearly enough, but it's more than what FS2002 (none). In all RL non-Stability Augmented helicopters (e.g. MD900), you *have* to apply pedal input on lift-off or else you'll be spinning like a top."I have been trying to find an answer to this for weeks. I'm using FS2002. I now have pedals, collective & cyclic but on takeoff no yaw! In the interim, since you posted this, have you found a tweak or fix so that when power is applied or removed the pedals have to be used?Thanks

>I have been trying to find an answer to this for weeks. I'm>using FS2002. I now have pedals, collective & cyclic but on>takeoff no yaw! In the interim, since you posted this, have>you found a tweak or fix so that when power is applied or>removed the pedals have to be used?Nope, same ol' same ol'. I've just sorta learned to live with it. I think (based on the fact that no-one's been able to solve this) that it's hard-coded into some deep dark part of FS2004's flight modeling. All of your toys (pedals/etc.) are still useful for everythiing else - e.g. pedal turns.Sorry I can't help,Dave Blevinshttp://www.flightfactory-simulations.com/h...ster_banner.jpg

Did you get any useful response from the designer of the R22 (Gilles) about flight characteristics that might be helpful to me?

Dave, I expect I too will be spending more time with FS2002 than FS2004 but not for the same reasons. But before I get to my reasons, I'd like to comment on something you mentioned in your post. You said something to the effect that in FS2002 on liftoff with the default Bell 206, there was NO right-turning effect which required use of pedal input to keep it straight. I do not find that to be true. I've spent a LOT of time practicing my hovering and pedal turns in FS2002 with the Bell 206. I have a definite right-turning tendancy on liftoff (and in a hover) which I correct with pedal input. Actually in FS2004 IMO that tendancy is lessened in the default Bell206. I will agree with you that the FS2004 Bell is a little more difficult to handle. For me at least it 'feels' more like a lightweight heli.But to get back to MY reason for not spending more time in FS2004 -- one word - stutters. My FS2002 performance is smooth. With comparable (and slightly less) settings in FS2004, I get stutters. Some scenery areas are worse than others; some are stutter free; but in general whether with default or 3rd party addons, I get stutters that are bad enough to ruin the illusion for me. I've tried everything to smooth out performance and maintain acceptable (for me) eye candy and frame rates (17 fps). I'm not now looking for any 'fixes', just sharing my reason for remaining (mostly) with FS2002 ... at least for now.-Lindy :-rotor:-wave Specs: P4, 2.4G, FX 5700 Ultra video card, Win98SE, 512 mg system RAM, two 7200 rpm hard drives, full installs of FS2002 and FS2004 each on a separate drive