Do the 3 or 4 engine aircraft fly directly over the Atlantic or Pacific, or do they follow the ETOPS guidelines of, let's say, the Eastern Seaboard to Keflavick then into Europe? I don't think 747s et. al. are restricted in this area.This is a consideration in requesting flight plans. Maybe specifying the equipment you are flying.Brent

Unless coming from the west coast, most airliners crossingthe atlantic use the NAT, or North American Track systemfor the crossing. These are close enough to keep the ETOPSaircraft within the regulation. When crossing the pacific,the only place ETOPS aircraft are restricted from flying ismostly in the South Pacific to Australia and New Zealand. Thismay change if ETOPS is extended to 240min from it's 207 minlevel, or to 207 from 180 mins. I can't remember which.NickPOSky Aircraft Advisor and Test Pilot

I think NAT means North Atlantic Track,not American.3 or 4-engined planes don't need ETOPS at all (ETOPS=Extended TWIN Operations Procedures),but they still follow the NAT tracks.Nick,why would a plane coming from the west coast wouldn't use a NAT?regards,Seba

Hi Nick,I'm booked on a UAL B777 from LAX to NZAA (Auckland, New Zealand) this coming December. Does this imply that the ETOPS range will be increased? Just interested.Thanks,Bruce.

Your are correct Seba, it is North Atlantic. I apologizefor the typo. In answer to your question, as the NAT tracksvary each day to favor the winds, sometimes they are toofar south for a great circle route from the west coast tobe economical. Therefore, a routing from the west coast mayoperate closer up towards Greenland. Of course, sometimes theaircraft do use the NAT tracks as the winds favor them. I'veheard of aircraft going to Europe from LA leaving the U.S. fromMontana all the way over to the eastern seaboard.And Bruce, you know I haven't heard for certain that the ETOPShas been extended to what I believe is 240mins. But my guess isif UAL is running a 777 to Auckland, it has been extended.NickPOSky Aircraft Advisor and Test Pilot

hello brentincluding the etops 120' this is absolutely enough for nat crossing on both direction...the 747 or threeholer got something who is not the the etops but the etp meaning at a point still go on or backgenerally einn cyqxthen for twin you add a middle point azores or bikf...hope this answeri can send some plans for md11, 7447 and 767 777 to see etp and etops scenarios cant post here too longphil

Thanks, Nick.

very interesting.. well 777 (for example MUST be ETOPS certified IF they want to cross the pond. that goes for 757/767 also.. I don't know what an Airbus is certif. under. Now 240 min. ETOPS!!! dude, the COA 99/98 flight KEWR(Newark)-VHHh(Hong kong) which has 200-210 min.ETOPS the FAA were' iffy' about issueing that..

NAT means North Atlantic, nothing more. That's why we say "NAT tracks". (Otherwise it would have been just "NATs", right?)Aircraft flying between the North American west coast and Europe are usually too far north to "fit" into the track system.MartinIt's a lot like life and that's what's appealing

Guys,It's not just the airframe that needs to be ETOPS certified, but the airline also. The airline operating proceedures are scrutinised before ETOPS certification is granted.I'm no expert on aircraft types, but I guess all 777's are certified. The 767-600-ER is, I believe, a special modification for ETOPS. (ER - Extended Range). I don't know about Airbus, but I recently flew to Cuba from UK on, I think, an A300. It was definatelly an Airbus anyway, and I think it had 2 engines. The permitted range does not apply to the duration of the flight, but to how far from a suitable alternate the flight path may be. As others have said, crossing the North Atlantic, the usual diversions are Shannon in Ireland, Keflavik in Iceland and somewhere in NE Canada.Intersting fact - The rather odd figure of 207 minutes was chosen to allow US operators to fly twins to Hawaii.Rgds,Fig.

hellonot all 777 are certified etops ops...they re factored for but the operators need to be at the top of there art before those certifications777 come directly with etops 180' but now some operators are reduced to 60' so...it depends...im sorry but about alnt etops they re more than only shannon and keflavik it depends routes you re using even to the south for north atlantic crossing... that s why planners are still useful for commpanies...!!!for canada yqx is the prefered one...!!! and about azores the airport is not so bad...see youphil

"Bangor" is also a frequently used alternate on the nort-east coast of the USAregards,Seba

hello alternate or etops airport...just to tell for nat crossing and north part of atlanticwe have in alphabetical orderbelfast cat IIIbrest cat IIIdublin cat IIIganderglasgow cat IIIgoose bayhalifaxiqaluitkefavlik cat IIlajesprestwicksanta mariast john's cat IIshannonsondrestormval d'orfor altn or era altn there a lot of but this ones are official published ones... at least for two operators one for a310 and 767... right to eops rules for 138'...!!!!hope this helpfil