Strange problems with overclocking

[Guest Mower]

Safest way to overclock: change only the FSB freq, plenty of cooling, monitor the temps, and leave the voltages alone. I can stabally squuze out maybe 15-20% that way.

[Guest Nick_N]

>Guys, please stop using this forum as a boxing ring.>You both have a lot of talent and knowledge and we all thank>you for that but your quarrels are really boring now.>Thanks.>DavidI did not falsely accuse anyone of anything, nor did I ever post anything technical on this forum that was pure and utter bull. Yes, talented in that respect describes one of us to a T.I will however address those things when I see them.And probably the best move here is for me to not be involved any longer.

[Guest UlfB]

>Guys, please stop using this forum as a boxing ring.>You both have a lot of talent and knowledge and we all thank>you for that but your quarrels are really boring now.>Thanks.>DavidDavid,IMHO this isn't a boxing match. It's all about the difference between knowledge and shallow attitude. Please read all posts by Nick and Sam during the past months and build some knowledge about the "boxing match".Ulf BCore2Duo X6800 3.3GHz4GB RAM Corsair XMS2-8500C5BFG 8800GTX, Creative SB X-FiFSX Acc/SP2, Vista 32

[Guest Nick_N]

Lets let it goThere is no 'boxing match' and all I did was address a blatant and outright lieDave,I will not ever again address Sams unprofessional and inexperienced technical 'extrapolations' which he is very talented in presenting past what he really knows technically but if I see anything like that outrageous accusation he posted, I will be the first in line with the paddle

[Mace 1,939]

It's BEYOND boring. It is childish, uncivil, you name it.Imagine, me telling someone to "Can It". I'd be ashamed of posting something like that. Where I come from you don't talk like a New York cab driver to someone.That is a major pox on this forum today if you ask me. I don't care what a persons knowledge is...if its a problem, I know what I'd do as a mod. This forum hummed along for many years before all that, and it can hum along after it. Good thing I'm not a mod I guess. I pity the original poster, who asked about S939 o/c. RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

[Guest Nick_N]

>Imagine, me telling someone to "Can It". I'd be ashamed of posting something like that. Where I come from you don't talk like a New York cab driver to someone.Where I come from you don

[jfri 42]

>Possibly. Find out the safe volts and temps for that AMD CPU.>If you reset volts, don't trust the bios settings. Get a trial>of Everest and check Both volts and temps with that. "HT link">is AMD-ish. I've never understood exactly how that fits the>AMD grand-plan. Give us a run down on what you learned. As we>were discussing, the best outcome of all this "advice" is to>help a user ask the right questions, then research, research,>research. Ignore the bluster. Go get 'em!I find no specific value for max voltage but only one voltage value to be used. And I already above that by having it set automatic.When it comes to temperature they state max is 49 - 70 deg celsius.So what is it 49 or 70? I don't see how max temp could be anything but a single value.BTW right now I have the FSB set to 219 MHz and so far things work fine. But also so far I see no noticable improvement in FSX performence.

[Guest Nick_N]

jfriI apologize about the distraction in the thread... I finished a set of textures for GEX early and I am looking up my notes on the A8V Deluxe. Its been a few years but I do keep a log of notes so please bear with me.I do remember I ran a x2 4800+ and a 3700+ on that motherboard and there was a 'cold boot' issue with that board. It goes back to a lack of power (poor design) once you pass a certain FSB. The cold boot problem was usually seen at 440MHz and above but could also be seen lower if you do not have voltage set correctly.The solution was to boot with the OC error and simply enter the BIOS, set the FSB to 200 hit F10 and exit and the system would boot. Reenter the BIOS right away and reset FSB to what you wish to run, hit F10 and reboot. The system will then run the desired FSBIt was an annoyance but the only fix that worked. Unfortunately when you shut the tower down completely you must repeat that process which is why I remember leaving that tower run 24/7.. but the problem only appeared when running above 445FSB as I recall.What I may do is post directly from my notes. It may be a very long post but it should contain all the information you may need about that BIOS. Also, do be aware that what I post will be based on OCZ memory sticks that can run certain speed and timing and therefore you may need to edit in the correct timing for your memory product. If the memory sticks can not do 230-240MHz you may not be able to clock higher than 240MHz however I ran 249-250 on that board and even had it at 280 a few timesI am diving into my logs now and will post back after I get a bit of a refresher going for myself

[Mace 1,939]

Hi jfri,Your 4000+ is not going to clock the same way your 3200+ did. The San Diego cpu's (such as your 4000+) will perform faster at a lower clock speed than the Winchester/Venice/Newcastle or whatever your particular 3200+ was. That is why you typically don't see 4000+'s at 240-250 on air.My 3700+ (clocked down version of your 4000+, but the same core) rarely exceeds 50degC at 2.4-2.6 ghz range. AMD had really refined their 90nm cpu's by the time the San Diegos came out.Another tweak that the San Diego/A64 platform seemed to respond well to was changing the memory to 1T. On contemporary Intel designs, this did not do much for the sim. What this translated into in the sim with A64 in my tests was an 8%-10% increase in frame rate.Generally, for San Diego's, the MAXIMUM typical 24/7 stable clocking on air was like this:3700+............2.5 ghz4000+............2.7 ghzFX57.............2.8-3 ghzGenerally 3 ghz was done on water, and it was done with an FX57, at least from my experience.I think at 219 x 12 you are really in the ballpark for a typical 4000+ clock. It should be a little faster than your 3200+, but the difference will not be a whole lot. You must remember that at the time, Intel had the P4 design, which ran hotter (60-70 degC) and performed worse, than the San Diegos, which was AMD's top line. I need to change my sig, as I show 2.6 for my 3700+. I have actually turned my o/c down on my 3700+, since it was not 100% stable at 2.6 and secondly, I no longer run FSX on that machine, so I don't need to push it that far.Ignore the unpleasant posts and posters and just worry about things that matter, and that is flight sim for our purposes here in this forum.RhettFS box: E8500 (@ 3.80 ghz), AC Freezer 7 Pro, ASUS P5E3 Premium, BFG 8800GTX 756 (nVidia 169 WHQL), 4gb DDR3 1600 Patriot Cas7 7-7-7-20 (2T), PC Power 750, WD 150gb 10000rpm Raptor, Seagate 500gb, Silverstone TJ09 case, Vista Ultimate 64ASX Client: AMD 3700+ (@ 2.6 ghz), 7800GT

[Guest Nick_N]

jfriAs I am sure you already understand and this is a given however I will post this given the nature of the noise earlier in the threadWARNING: THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS TO BE USED AT YOU OWN RISKThis should provide you with everything you need to know about the A8V Deluxe BIOS and overclocking the system both mild clock and balls to the walls. I ran this board balls to the walls and it was a great board with the right memory installed.Something you need to verify is the current A8V Deluxe BIOS revision and the CPU revision. According to Asus the 4000+ has 3 revisions and each revision of that processor requires a different minimum BIOS installed4000+Revision CG = BIOS 1007 or aboveRevision E4 = BIOS 1011 or aboveRevision E6 = BIOS 1015 or aboveI ran BIOS 1017 which is the last official BIOS release for that board. I found it quite stable. I suggest you verify the BIOS you are on and the revision of the CPU using CPUz and make sure you are on the BIOS for that revision (or higher) I had good stable clocking with BIOS 1017 and it covers all the bases.A BIOS flash can be dangerous and I did not cover that process in this writeup however it may be needed if you are not running the right BIOS for the processor you have installed.Next, be aware I did not run a 4000+ processor. I ran a 3700 and a x2 4800. They are similar however with differences. I also ran OCZ high performance memory product which allowed me to take full advantage of the Hypertransport system and use the memory divider in the BIOS to clock both memory and processor correctly.The trick with AMD is to make use of BOTH the processor and the memory AND with the A8V Deluxe you can take advantage of the extended HyperTransport abilities the chipset and supporting electronics on the board will allow. This board will do a HT of 1080-1100 stable or a total HTF of 2160-2200 so you can run a FSB of up to 220-275Mhz on the 800 HT setting or 4x multiplier in the BIOS.The 3700 and the x2 4800 had the multiplier available. If memory serves the 4000+ also allows multiplier changes from 12x down.The nominal voltage is 1.5v and I would be careful exceeding that. It can be done but you must have the right cooler installed and you must make sure your max temp does not exceed 65-68c under a full load OCCT 1 hour stability test. Here is the BIOS setup for running WITHOUT clocking the processor or memory. I will give you these settings first and then move to clocking.If there is something not listed or listed differently, or you are not sure, always default to AUTO unless you are sure of a change.ADVANCED MENUMENUCPU Configuration -HyperTransport(HT) Configuration:HT Frequency [1000 MHz] DEFAULTHT DATA Width (Upstream) [16 BIT]HT DATA Width (Downstream) [16 BIT]=================================================Memory Configuration -Memclock Mode <MANUAL>Configuration options: <Limit>RATIO = <2:1 DDR 400> Memory Hole = DISABLEDBank Interleaving <ENABLED>Burst Length [4 Beats] NOTE: 8 Beats for 64bit Windows and 2GB of memoryMemory Timing = <MANUAL>NOTE: If you do not know your manual memory timing values, leave this on AUTO however I suggest you look up your memory and set the first 4 values to their rated timingThese were the values I ran with the OCZ memory product I was using. You probably can not use these values for your memory and will need to get that information from the memory manufactureSome of these may not be listed in order, watch the label:CAS Latency (CL) [2.0] 2.5 is also OK for default memory speed if 2.0 may be unstable @ 1TTRAS [8]TRP [2] NOTE: In higher clocks this may need to be raised to 3TRCD [3]TRRD = [2]TRC [15]TRFC [17]TRWT [3]TWTR or TWCL <AUTO>TWR [3]Asynclat [8ns]Read Preamble Setting [6ns]2T Command <ENABLED>IMPORTANT: This enables the 1T Memory Command Rate when set to DISABLED. Disabled means 2T is disabled and 1T is turned on1T is the LAST value you should try and go for after all other clocking is established as STABLE so you will come back to this setting later and try DISABLED for 1T if its not stable you will need to accept a 2T CMD timingAND REGARDLESS OF WHAT ----ANYONE---- SAYS ON THIS BOARD THIS SETTING WILL HELP WITH PERFORMANCE BY QUITE A BIT IF THE RIGHT FORMULAS ARE APPLIED IN CLOCKING AS SHOWN IN THE OVERCLOCKING SECTION OF THIS WRITEUP AND LOW CAS/HIGH SPEED MEMORY IS BEING USED================================ECC ConfigurationALL Disabled under this heading. This configuration is only enabled if you are running server grade EEC memory====================================AMD Cool & Quiet Configuration

[Guest Nick_N]

I have a follow up on thisDo be aware that Asus BIOS programmers skewed the math on the A8V Deluxe for the CPU 1/2 multipliers.. that means for some combinations of multiplier/FSB the 'correct' calculated memory speed will not be the same as what the system actually runs. I do believe it was only the 1/2 multipliers that were affected by the skewSo if you see some differences between the formula memory speed and what the system shows you will know why. Its not an error, its the math in the BIOS. I have a note here they did that to boost the perf with the lower fractional multipliers which were popular with overclockers back then for fine tuning on the 5:3 divider.

[Guest D17S]

If all this seems a bit overwhelming, consider the first bit of our conversation . . . "The performance difference between an AMD dual at 2.4 vs 2.6 will not be discernible. There's really no point in overclocking, other than practice."It might have been assumed that faster is always better. Not true. This Only applies to the CPU clock. All other busses and components should be left or rescheduled to their default (or rated) speeds whenever possible. Of course, the FSB will need to be increased to drive the CPU faster, however the increased FSB speed itself will not contribute to performance. Nor will increasing HT buss, PCI buss or memory speeds. Go ahead and drive the CPU with the FSB, but use whatever knobs are required to get all that other stuff back to their rated speeds.This is good practice though. Your AMD CPU is really just the 1st Nehelam i7. Really. You essentially have Intel's new CPU (abit, a Very early prototype!) but the similarities are striking. As you learn about all this, notice that AMD uses the FSB as kinda a "base clock" to drive the other components. More directly, Intel's i7 is now calling this the BCK (Base Clock). Duahh! The i7 also has a component called the Uncore. It's a 5th CPU (on a quad). That CPU's speed is also driven by this BCK and controlled by a multiplier. Early tests suggest O/Cing this component is useless. This new BCK (or the old FSB) runs at 133Mhz and it too will only provide a means to drive the CPU's speed. FSB overclocks will continue to provide no other performance function. The i7 looks like a 30% clock for clock improvement over the "old" 65nm core2 design, and that's about it. Nehalem's triple channel memory sub subsystem appears to provide no advantage over the current dual channel arrangement. Dual is still plenty. "Faster, bigger and more of 'em" really can be just marketing chatter.However once the prices returns to earth, it Will be the platform of choice.

[jfri 42]

First I would like to thank you for taking the time to post all this stuff>WARNING: THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS TO BE USED AT YOU OWN>RISK>If there is a risk that I permanently destroy my mobo even if raising the FSB a slight amount in steps I think I will stay over.That risk is not an accepteble one.>4000+>Revision E4 = BIOS 1011 or above>This is the one I use and with BIOS 1018.002>A BIOS flash can be dangerous and I did not cover that processRegarding BIOS ,here I have fears about risks. What if the BIOS get corrupted and I can't even boot from a floppy.>Next, be aware I did not run a 4000+ processor. I ran a 3700>and a x2 4800. They are similar however with differences. I>also ran OCZ high performance memory product which allowed me>to take full advantage of the Hypertransport system and use>the memory divider in the BIOS to clock both memory and>processor correctly.>Your memory were propably better than mine.>will do a HT of 1080-1100 stable or a total HTF of 2160-2200>so you can run a FSB of up to 220-275Mhz on the 800 HT setting>or 4x multiplier in the BIOS.>My current HT is 1095 according to CPU-Z. So if I raise FSB further I need to lower it in BIOS to 800 MHz. That would mean that with modest FSB raise the HT would be underclocked. And then might eat up the performence gain from the OC CPU or?>After reviewing my notes I found I had run this board at>270-275FSB 24/7 for a year. >I don't wan't to run my computer 24/7.

[Guest Nick_N]

>First I would like to thank you for taking the time to post>all this stuff>>>WARNING: THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS TO BE USED AT YOU>OWN>>RISK>>>>If there is a risk that I permanently destroy my mobo even if>raising the FSB a slight amount in steps I think I will stay>over.>That risk is not an accepteble one.Any Overclocking you assume the riskI have never damaged a board clocking FSB that was not defective to begin with. I have had 3 returns for boards that were defective in the last 10 yearsYou asked about overclocking... finding out if your board, card, proc has a weak area comes with the territory.. if absolutely under no circumstances wish to take any chances, I suggest you completely abandon overclocking, buy a i7 system and let go of the 4-5 year old motherboard and AMD system.In your case a i7 920 would run massive circles around what you have now>>4000+>>Revision E4 = BIOS 1011 or above>>>>This is the one I use and with BIOS 1018.002Then you are running a BETA BIOS according to the Asus website. I never ran the BETA BIOS for the A8V only the official BIOS releases. If you are on 1018 then the processor no matter the revision is supported>>>A BIOS flash can be dangerous and I did not cover that>process>>Regarding BIOS ,here I have fears about risks. What if the>BIOS get corrupted and I can't even boot from a floppy.A BIOS flash is dangerous... how you got on BIOS 1018 without flashing the BIOS is strange... unless you bought the board used because Asus would never sell a motherboard with a BETA BIOS on it.never motherboards have safeguards for BIOS flashing. The A8V does have the baypass system for use with the CD in recovery however it was hit and miss if it worked. >>>Next, be aware I did not run a 4000+ processor. I ran a 3700>>and a x2 4800. They are similar however with differences. I>>also ran OCZ high performance memory product which allowed>me>>to take full advantage of the Hypertransport system and use>>the memory divider in the BIOS to clock both memory and>>processor correctly.>>>>Your memory were propably better than mine.Very possible.. which is why I gave you the values to clock without overdriving the memory using the divider. >>>will do a HT of 1080-1100 stable or a total HTF of 2160-2200>>so you can run a FSB of up to 220-275Mhz on the 800 HT>setting>>or 4x multiplier in the BIOS.>>>>My current HT is 1095 according to CPU-Z. So if I raise FSB>further I need to lower it in BIOS to 800 MHz. That would mean>that with modest FSB raise the HT would be underclocked. And>then might eat up the performence gain from the OC CPU or?No, you do not lose performance by droping HT. It can give you a slight edge by being clocked up which is why I ran 275MHz @ HT 800 but droping HT back to 1000 wont hinder a CPU clock in ANY way. You are better off on a higher CPU or CPU/MEM clock than you are a higher HT>>>After reviewing my notes I found I had run this board at>>270-275FSB 24/7 for a year. >>>>I don't wan't to run my computer 24/7.>>Thats fine.. I just gave you what I had in my notesEverything you need is in that writeup... however I will tell you this... the motherboard and processor you are running are only going to get you so far. You will never, ever exceed the performance in FSX of a 1.8GHz 2.2GHz Core2 Intel system even if you are clocked to 3GHz on that 4000+Thats was just to give you a frame of reference as to what to expect. You are running 4-5 year old techA higher CPU clock will run FSX better for what you are use to seeing. I gave you the values to drop HT, drop to DDR3 5:3 so you could raise FSB and change the multiplier/vcore so your memory would not be overclocked. Your memory is overclocked right now if you are on the default 2:1 (DDR 400) and FSB is above 200MHz

[jfri 42]

>suggest you completely abandon overclocking, buy a i7 system>and let go of the 4-5 year old motherboard and AMD system.>>In your case a i7 920 would run massive circles around what>you have now>I would had it not been for money. I have already spent money to replace my 6600GT 256M with a 7950GT 512M and the AMD 3200+ with 4000+ and upgrading the memory from 1 Gb to 2 Gb. Finally I have bought a WD 150 Gb 10000 rpm harddrive to use instead of an 260 Gb 7200 rpm IDE harddrive.This has resulted in significant performence increase. An i7 would hit my economy with a massive punch.>A BIOS flash is dangerous... how you got on BIOS 1018 without>flashing the BIOS is strange... unless you bought the boardMisunderstanding of course I did flash BIOS to get 1018.002.I was thinking about a risk that the BIOS would get corrupted and at the same also impossible to flash again.>performance in FSX of a 1.8GHz 2.2GHz Core2 Intel system even>if you are clocked to 3GHz on that 4000+>You mean even an Core 2 Duo clocked at 1.8 GHz would be faster than an AMD 64 4000+ clocked at 3 GHz?