Colour bleedthrough

[Guest Bill_M]

Are you saying that the information I have given is factually incorrect? If so in what particular?Are you saying that my procedure does not work? If so then how do you explain the textures I have published which have garnered many fine compliments?I am only trying to give Alba a simple alternative way to do repaints using Martin's tool. Do you contend otherwise??????

[Alba 0]

Hello again folks. Let me at this juncture say how much I appreciate the help that has been given to me. I knew how to do the basic function of opening into an edit programme and then 'Reloading after edit'. What I did not know was the info about the dangers of doing this several times.I am now in a much better position to produce good quality repaints. I am now more confident to back up an a/c's textures and go experiment using some of the different file formats in DXTBMP and to compare the results.I will also need to read up on using layers. I get the impression that layers are much more versatile than the basic way I have been using them up to now. That is, simply, copying and pasting lines, doors and windows etc.It's a good feeling to know that people are prepared to help out and share their information and techniques in such a way.Regards to all...Kenny

[Leen3131cs 107]

In fact I gave the answer already twice Bill.Please read all my explanations.ORSend an e-mail to Mr Wright and ask him to read this topic.Maybe I can tell the same in other words , but I am quiet sure I`ll agree with my way of handling the files.The whole story about files getting currupted ( while still showing correct textures) due to multiple savings in DXTBmp came from Mr Wright himself.When you choose the option Send to editor , the texture part of the file is exported to Paintshop or whatever.The alpha and other information remains in DXTBmp.When you then choose the option reload after edit , the texture what comes in is OK, BUT by saving the file the alpha and other information are saved for a second or more time.These parts of the file information may become corrupted.NOT the texture.Using your method the textures are fine , only the quality of the file tends to decrease.And can make FS crash when such a file is loaded.Thats what I explained.RegardsLeen de Jager

[Guest Bill_M]

Leen, you never snaswered my specific questions. But answer this one. Im my method is wrong then why does it work - perfectly - for me? Occasionally, under conditions I cannot reliably reproduce, the alpha channel is saved as all black. But other than that so long as what I save in DXTBMP is what was edited from another file than norm.bmp I get no prolems. And in a typical editing session I may make dozens of tiny edits to the master file necessitating of saves of the texture file DXTBMP.The artifacts are a result of multiple generations of saves from DXTBMP without bringing in a pristine version of the image from a file never touched by DXTBMP.Here is an illustration of the results of 5 generations of load/save from DXTBMP. For each generation I reloaded the image from disk and saved it. It is for the portion of the fuselage texture of PAD's excellent Learjet-60 that covers aft end of the fuselage and the vertical stab.http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/181829.jpgThe changes are most noticable in the leading edge of the vertical stab but if you look at the margins of the basic fuselage color changes to the mask are apparent. Please note that portions of the image on the left side are from the texture as it is now and is itself the results of DOZENS of saves. I had a time getting the logo on the VStab proportioned and positioned correctly.Now, Leen, exactly what part of my method is wrong? What pardt doesn't work? Or will you admit YOU were mistaken.Kenny, contact me via email and I'll tell you about using the PSP files for your source for re-edits and using norm/trans.bmp as a conduit out-of/into DXTBMP.

[Leen3131cs 107]

Oh no I was certainly not mistaken.I am afraid you do not realise we are talking about two different things.You are speaking in terms of texture-quality.I am talking about the quality of the file.Following your system of painting it is possible to produce correct textures.Nevertheless I strongly advise not to do it that way.As I said before read carefully what I have written about that.Speaking about the pictures shown above.I do not see much difference between them, I agree.On the other hand I think things could be made much sharper.I`ll download the PAD paintkit and reproduce the same sceme.When I succeed in doing that , I`ll show you the result on this topic.RegardsLeen de JagerWell ehh it did`nt take long.As you can see the quality achieved by saving to 32-888 gives a far better result.http://www.dutchfs.com/crew/leen/tijdelijk/tails.png

[Guest Pipe]

Well guys, I think we

[Leen3131cs 107]

Having made this texture I tried it on the model.As you can see the lines of the US flag do not match.This little "glitch" is very hard to workaround.It can be done ( improved alignment not 100%) by correcting pixel by pixel.Due to the fact we cannot paint half-pixels better result probably is not possible.RegardsLeenhttp://forums.avsim.net/user_files/181854.jpg

[Guest Bill_M]

Leen, The problem you dientified is not a fault of any part of the editing process but of a miniscule alignment problem between the vertical stab itself and the rudder. You ought to try running a stripe up from the fuselage onto the vstab. Lots of adjustment there.BTW, how did you like my paintkit for the L60? I think I did a darn good job on it, don't you agree? Check the readme that came with the paintkit. Bob gave me credit for it. ;-)

[Guest Bill_M]

Leen, The problem you identified is not a fault either of any part of the editing process or the textures themselves but of a miniscule alignment problem between the vertical stab itself and the rudder. You ought to try running a stripe up from the fuselage onto the vstab. Lots of adjustment there.BTW, how did you like my paintkit for the L60? I think I did a darn good job on it, don't you agree? Check the readme that came with the paintkit. Bob gave me credit for it. ;-) As for the color changes in my comparison, that was from only 5 generations of saves without any sort of updating of r upgrading of the source image. Why can you not accept that my process produces usable textures and admit that you were wrong about it? You are so very quick to point out others' mistakes, are you not big enough to admit your own?Oh, and the lack of sharpness you saw was from resizing my textures down to save space for posting here. http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/181865.jpg See? Nice and sharp. The gray area is a mask I added. It is only approximate and so was not intended to be exact.Kenny, email me if you have any questions.

[Leen3131cs 107]

Sorry Bill,I simply cannot explain things better than I already did.BTW making a figure running over tail and fuse?Less work than aligning the flag.It took me three minutes for the blue figure.Ten minutes for the Duck.Very simple to do.Using the FSRepaint free demo!http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/181871.jpg

[Leen3131cs 107]

>>>Why can you not accept that my process produces usable textures and admit that you were wrong about it?<<< Bill wrote.As I alsmost always give answers to questions and I have some more spare time now.My reaction:I NEVER/NOWHERE said you method produces unuseable textures Bill.Textures made following your system can be fine ,spoken in terms of texture.So please quote me?Where did I say that?The only thing I explaned is that your method may ( I emphasize on MAY) lead to unreliable files and therefore the method is not safe to use.The explanation why ( Martin Wright told me , because I asked him. ) , I have given twice on this topic and I stop repeating.Best regardsLeen de Jager.

[Alba 0]

Hello pipe. Yes, I did manage to find out why there was a degradation in the colourway of lines that I had added to the fuselage texture and also to the edges of text.This was because I was doing what DXTBMP does so well. I was opening a texture file in DXTBMP, sending it to my edit programme, making my edits and then reloading it after edit back into DXTBMP then saving back into the sim in it's original format. DXT3.I thought that I was well on my way to being an aircraft painter. I did not realise that DXTBMP is a lot more powerful than the way I was using it. I need now to experiment further with different formats and also to look at the alpha channel and how to make use of it.Looking at the aircraft from a distance it looked ok but when I loaded it back into my editor for further repaint or fine tuning I was dismayed to find that when I zoomed in, the colour quality was poor. At that point I did not know why. I then spent some time correcting things only for the same thing to happen.Leen, Bill and yourself have shed light on why this was so. Now I have made a folder structure so that I can save textures in a higher quality format,as well as saving the texture file in the native file format of my editor. I still am unsure about the shading differences on the fuselage. However they show up on the original textures that came with the aircraft so perhaps there is nothing that can be done to change that.This thread has developed into a lively discussion. One that will help many aspiring re-painters I am sure.Regards to all...Kenny

[Leen3131cs 107]

About the different shades.Try to replace all alpha layers by pure white (triple 255 , which results in NO alpha-gloss))Make all texturefiles ( completely) in one massive color.When you load this in FS you should see an equal colored plane.When there is unequal shading now , it is due to de gloss built in the mdl file.There is not much to do about that.Alltough there is software available to remove the gloss , the result will be poor.The unequal shading can be removed , removing this also removes gloss from glass-surfaces.Leen de Jager

[Alba 0]

Hi Leen,The alpha layers are pure white already. The original a/c textures had white alpha layers. I had a bit of a glitch halfway through when saving to .tga but since sorting that by saving as 24bit bmp and then DXT3 for the final save back to the sim then they have stayed as triple 255.I will make a new folder and copy the textures to it then recolour them as you suggest. I see what you mean about the equal coloured aircraft.I will post back with the result..........OK, here's the result The aircraft looks exactly the same. So it looks like the shading is inbuilt to the model. My boss at the VA says the a/c looks fine, so it will stay as it is.Thanks again.

[Leen3131cs 107]

Here a picture from a repaint I am working on.This is the fatastic freeware Buecker 131B Jungmann , made by Oliver Fisher.In my eyes one of the finest biplanes for FS ,ever.As you can see the plane on top has a lot of reflection on the aluminium plated parts on the front-side of the planeThe maker of the model ( Oliver Fischer ) added this to make these parts more shyny than the fabric covered parts of the plane.On the old plane , cominig straight from the battle , with worn out fabric and full of dirt , I could not use this shine.I removed the gloss from the mdl file using Ivan "Archisoft" Hsu's MDLC command line utility " Downloadable here : http://www.sim-outhouse.com/index.php?lloc...nfo&FileID=4445The picture at the bottom shows the plane after the gloss has been removed.This means a repaint like this, always has to be published including a midified MDL-file.As we all (should) know publishing MDL files without written permission by the maker of the model is "Not done"Always ask permission to do things like this.And if given, make a statement about this permission in the repaint-readme file.I am about half-way the repaint proces and expect to publish the repaint in a few weeks.http://www.dutchfs.com/crew/leen/tijdelijk/glim.jpgModel: Buecker 131B JungmannModel by: Oliver Fisher (www.junkers-52.de )Repaint : Leen de Jager