Sign in to follow this  
Guest pylon101

High altitude airports

Recommended Posts

I know, guys, it is not an urgent question. New customers requests are the ultimate priority.I tried A-320 in hight altitude airports: La Paz, Quito and my favorite -ZULS (Lhasa) where I hope to be some day. All airlines there use A-320 these days.But even with minimum possible ZFW 123,000 and 14,000 of fuel on board (for the flight from Quito to Bogota)I could not take off from those runways which are the longest in the world.Are there special procedures (of course there are!) for such airports? And how can we follow them with PSS A32x model?NickMoscowRussia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

I had never taken off from Quito so I gave it go with the iFDG/PSS merged A319 with ZFW 50.0 tonnes, Block Fuel 10.9 tonnes (the alternate was back to Quito so there was quite a lot of fuel), trim -1.8UP, winds 082/25 (using ASV), runway 17, QNH 1025. The take off run was quite long but otherwise was quite normal. I'll do it again, measure the takeoff run and post some screenshots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you take ZFW 50.0 for A319 it should be not full of PAX, right?It is quite possible. I was in Madrid in February and was observing A310 LAB A310 departing to Viru-Viru International. It's just an hour fligt from La Paz.In Equador the role of low altitude airport plays Simon Bolivar airport in Guayaquil.Still American Airlines have flight to both capitals on Boeing 757. I assume that AA flights are naturally half-empty (due to rates - not politics) :-))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Nick, Your A319 Hi Alt take off issue interested me so I tried the10K Ft Rwy at SPHZ (Alt approx 9200'). I loaded 100% fuel and the rest pax/cargo up to max weight. Attempted manually controlled takeoff (no AP or AT). Throttle to max, flaps 3 > could not achieve Vr by 8000~8500' mark so commenced rotation to ~15deg at ~135kts. Aircraft lifted off before end of runway and was able to maintain 300~400' climb rate after gear retractionto ~1000'AGL at which point I leveled off and went through theacceleration flap retraction phase while flying through a canyon.Next I was able to enter a 270kt climb (1000 ft/min) to ~14K'where I made MCDU entries for approach to Rwy 15 at Lima andoverfly the (tall) mountains and descend along the coast. It was a VERY fun challenge and although I'm sure that atleast half the pax and crew suffered massive coronarys (theones that didn't jump out the emergency exits in the canyon),I thoroughly enjoyed it, and thank you for the inspiration.Very best,Ken B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

> (Alt approx 9200'). I loaded 100% fuel and the rest pax/cargo up to max weight. Of course in the real world the MTOW would be reduced at this altitude, so loading up to MTOW as though you were at sea level is not realistic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To Rob Elliott, EGPE InvernessAirbus Fleet Training CaptainI'm an immortal test pilot for Virtual Frontier AL. AlthoughI love realism, I frequently try "stuff" just for fun to seeif it can be done. Fortunately, my virtual pax are immortal also and they all recover completely from their virtual coronaries and leaps from emergency exits, and they allvolunteer to fly with me on every flight `cause they never know what the crazy dude up front is gonnatry next (they like the excitement{so do I}).Thanks for the advisory Rob.Ken Boardman FFT114

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, hi-altitude airports are great. Actually, weights and the number of passangers are not that important. Definitely those numbers are to be considerably decreased. For each h/a airport and each aircraft type there are special requirements.I know, for example, that Aeroflot pilots should go from Moscow to Innsbruck 9 times just as students before flying in the right seat.The most important, though, are take off procedures. So it would be interesting to get a response from someone knowledgeable to comment on Ken's procedures used: flaps 3, earlier rotation, etc. Which means that take off is fully manual (or IFR from controller) and MDCU activated in due course.Try Paro, Bhutan, Ken. It's the ultimate experience. They flew only BAe-146 but bought A319, I heard. You will need some Tibet mesh to correct landscape.Thanks for your input!NICK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure what or who you consider to be knowledgeable. But even though you probably don't mean me I will nevertheless give a comment :)Weights are important at hot and high altitude airports - why else would the MTOW be reduced. Flaps 3 is an interesting one: they do help on short runways but with a high altitude on the A320 family at an alt of say 9000 feet you have to add 6 kts to the vSpeeds (whatever the flap settings)- look at your take off vSpeed adjustment charts - and it might be argued that with flaps 3 it will take a slightly longer time to reach v1 and vR than with Config 1+F. However my preference would certainly be for flaps 3 on a high altitude takeoff.Earlier rotation: you should only ever be rotating at vR. An earlier rotation than vR and you seriously risk a tailstrike.The MCDU is activated and working all the time, if it isn't the aircraft has gone tech as on most airlines it's on the MEL. Perhaps you mean the autopilot?Yes Druk Air bought A319s after their high alt performance worked out better than the Boeing 737 (-800s I think). Maybe the cost was better as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rob, anyone who knows more then me is regarded as a knowledgeable man, sorry, person. These days it's better to be politically correct everywhere anytime.Sure weights are everything. I just meant it would be impossible to get those for every h/a flight in FS.Right, right. MDCU is activated but AP engaged later than usual.So I assumed from your response that flaps configuration may differ but Vr must be reached.Okay. Thanks a lot. Now I know much more. Will try to apply all this to Paro today.I hope to go to that region one day (have been planning for 3 years already): to fly (as a pax) in Nepal (Lukla is a must) + ZULS (Lhasa) + Paro. And a week on GOA beaches after all that - if still in one piece :-jumpyThanks everyone. NICK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I hope you get there Nick and I will be envious of you if you do: it must be a wonderful region to visit and fun to fly into and out of. The closest I've ever been is Beijing where I lived from '82 to '83.Do give a report on how you get on with Paro and the other high alt airports.Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a little OT but I had to ask because it has had me curious for a while. Someone here mentioned Aeroflot requiring 9 landings in Innsbruck before sitting in the "right seat". Is the right seat the captain's seat? Or is it the left seat like other aircraft (Boeing, McD, etc)? It's a different story with Airbus because of the control stick and no yoke... that means the captain is flying it left handed always? Or is the seating reversed to the captain can use his right hand?I am a right-handed person and wonder how good my flying would be left-handed :) Maybe they look for left-handed people to fly in the left seat? Anyways I was curious about this right-hand left-hand control stick issue because it would seem like it would take an added measure of dexterity to fly in the left seat if you're a right-handed person?Ruahrc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry. I was not clear enough.I meant that a pilot of Aeroflot who would be going to fly to LOWI as a F/O should fly as a student for 9 flights. Just staying in the cockpit and observing all crazy procedures required for LOWI.I know that it applies to Russian charter airlines as well.I assume this is applicable to all carriers. Just the number of flights may be different.I will check this information through Russian forums and will be back with up-to-date information.NICK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ruahrc, the Captain sits in the left seat, the F/O in the right. I can assure you it takes no more than 20 minutes to get used to using the sidestick whether in the left or right seat. No, airlines do not look for left-handed pilots to sit in the left seat. It really is very easy whether you are right or left handed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this