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Guest JimWright

How do I get Wilco's support to talk to me?

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On 22nd Jan I bought the PIC 737 (both for FS9 and FSX) from Wilco. Installation went ok but when I came to run it the 737 software crashed FSX. I tried it in FS9 and it crashed in exactly the same place. I don't want to go into the technical side too much, suffice it to say that I can get as far as starting the APU but when I come to connect the APU onto the bus FSX (and FS9) crashes back to the desktop. There seems to be no provision for external power so I cannot start the engines at all. This happens if I try to start the flight with the engines already running

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malcolm ... or is it jim??? :( assuming you are the same person as posted on the support forum i stated -at this time it has been impossible to duplicate your challenge.--
Yes I am the same person - My real name is Malcolm but I am known by everyone, including my wife, as Jim - it's a long story!I understand that this needs to be duplicated. My post wasn't so much asking for an answer as much as a response from Wilco letting me know what was going on. As I understand it my support is done through Wilco not yourselves. The feelthere forum is only an unofficial support site for PIC737. Please correct me if I'm wrong.My system is moderately powerful and is an off the shelf Dell system. I have recently updated my video drivers. My system operates extremely well. Since buying the PIC737 - and not having it work - I have bought a top of the range 747-400 which operates fine. I would guess that the model is more complex than the PIC737 and the only crashes are when I manage to drive it into the ground!I've been writing software - operating systems and applications - for nearly 40 years and I know how hard it is to duplicate problems. My current problem doesn't just make the plane hard to fly but impossible to even start the engines. Because the crash is to the desktop, and as far as I can see in exactly the same place, it suggests a jump to an illegal memory location or something similar.In every case the dll FT73x.dll (I hope this is the correct one because I'm not currently on the computer with it installed) seems to be mentioned. In addition there are many mentions in the forums of other problems also involving dll FT73x.dll (where x is the model of the 737). Not in exactly the way that I get but it is involved.One possibility is that my physical memory has a problem. However checks that I run do not show any memory problems. Also because it crashes in exactly the same place in FSX and FS9 I find it strange that exactly the same memory location is involved.Because it is possible to push the APU Bus switch without the system crashing if the APU is not generating power then I would have thought that the problem lays with the code that starts up the various systems. One person has reported that when he connects the APU to the bus there is quite a delay before the program continues. This could indicate a problem in that area anyway.I have tried everything I can to make this work including starting the engines in another plane and then swapping to the 737 - the same crash. Starting the FSX with engines running - same crash. I've deinstalled both versions, started with a new FSX.cfg and reinstalled - same crash. I have installed VS2005 but it makes no difference.Possible steps to a solution: There are various possibilities that I can see.1. The download was faulty. Unlikely as most failed downloads are apparent when you try to execute the software. I also tried a second download but this worked in exactly the same way.2. There is an underlaying problem in the versions that you supplied me. To refresh your memory 737PICX_Full_9b and 73PIC_Full_2b (Again I hope these are the correct names). To see if this is the case I did make a request to Wilco to see if they could supply me with an earlier version of the software to see if that works. (If it did then I would probably be happy to keep the older version if that was possible.)3. There is an underlaying problem with the software when dealing with large amounts of memory - I have 4GB - and/or dual cores. Could there be a core change at some point causing the problem?I am quite happy to work through this problem with someone who has access to the code if that would help. As long as I feel that something is being done then I am quite a patient person. It's when I get a complete lack of response that I get worried.Thanks for your helpMalcolm/Jim Wright

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Since it appears most people don't have a similar problem with the PIC 737, and the support staff cannot seem to duplicate your issue, it would appear something is awry on your computer, that much is apparent. So I'm not sure what you'd want Wilco to tell you, other than 'we can't figure out what is wrong with your computer', which of course would be no help even if they said it.I'd be inclined to try several things myself, including, reinstalling the MSI installer, upgrading .Net, reinstalling FSUIPC, reinstalling FS (although if it is a problem with FS9 and FSX, that seems an unlikely solution), so if I'm honest, I'd probably format the drive and reinstall everything from the operating system up, which I know is a pain in the &@($*, but it's what I did the other day, so that's not merely a flippant suggestion.Alternatively, if you have a spare drive, or an external HD or something like that, you could do a basic operating system install onto there instead, boot from that and install FS9 and try the PIC 737 in that, if it works, it would point to your main drive having something dodgy on the operating system which is preventing the PIC 737 from installing or running properly, and I suspect that is probably the case. Worth a shot I reckon.Al

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Since it appears most people don't have a similar problem with the PIC 737, and the support staff cannot seem to duplicate your issue, it would appear something is awry on your computer, that much is apparent. So I'm not sure what you'd want Wilco to tell you, other than 'we can't figure out what is wrong with your computer', which of course would be no help even if they said it.I'd be inclined to try several things myself, including, reinstalling the MSI installer, upgrading .Net, reinstalling FSUIPC, reinstalling FS (although if it is a problem with FS9 and FSX, that seems an unlikely solution), so if I'm honest, I'd probably format the drive and reinstall everything from the operating system up, which I know is a pain in the &@($*, but it's what I did the other day, so that's not merely a flippant suggestion.Alternatively, if you have a spare drive, or an external HD or something like that, you could do a basic operating system install onto there instead, boot from that and install FS9 and try the PIC 737 in that, if it works, it would point to your main drive having something dodgy on the operating system which is preventing the PIC 737 from installing or running properly, and I suspect that is probably the case. Worth a shot I reckon.Al
Thanks Al for your suggestion. I would be stupid if I said that my machine is absolutely ok - on the other hand I run a mixture of quite complex software on my machine, including some of the most advanced aircraft available for FSX and FS9 and all of them - with the exception of the PIC737 work. I've updated all relevant drivers, defragged, cleaned the registry etc etc and none of it makes any difference.My main reason for starting this thread wasn't just to find a solution - although would be very nice! - but to try and get some response from Wilco. At the moment I have had nothing from Wilco support for nearly three weeks. I would have expected some response by now, even if its "we can't figure out what is wrong" etc. The crash takes place at a very specific location in one of their Dll's and I would have thought that this would give them some indication of what is going on - even if that points to a problem with my computer. I also would have expected quite a lot of questions to try and identify the problem but support has been almost totally quiet. I could - for example - provide them with 737 logs, a video of what actually happens, but they don't seem to be interested and I hesitate to send them blind.I had thought about clearing the system and starting from scratch and I have decided not to do it. To be honest I don't think the PIC737 is worth the trouble. I've now bought the PMDG 747-400 and this works fine. I normally fly small single engine planes - I am, or was, a real life flyer and small single engine planes are what I know. (I don't fly anymore because the cost is too high.) However I wanted to buy the Fly Tampa Kai Tak scenery. In my youth I was a sailor in the merchant marine and have memories of being anchored in Hong Kong harbour and seeing the big jets come in to land and take off - this was in the 1960's. So I wanted a big(ish) jet to fly into and out of Kai Tak and the PIC737 seemed a reasonable choice. However now having the 747 - which offers the same sort of solutions - only bigger and harder - I am quite content on that front. I would like to get the 737 running but it's not worth sitting around for hours reformatting, reinstalling etc etc. I have two 500gb disks and the second disk is mainly used for backups. I might install FSX onto this disk and then install the PIC737 on that drive to see what happens. Fingers Crossed!Malcolm

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Malcolm,When I installed the PIC737 into FSX, it corrupted my dll.xml file (as well as everyone else who installed it into FSX). I copied the orig dll.xml before installing, then, after installation, cut and paste the PIC737 entries into the copied dll.xml and then replaced the corrrupted one. This could be causing your problems if your dll.xml is corrupted. Good luck on getting it fixed.Jim

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Hmm, don't let yourself be told that you're the only one to have this problem, therefore it's your problem etc. With Wilco Airbus vol 1, some users including me had windshield textures appearing black or dark blue on the external view. We were told: you're the only ones to report that, your problem.Then a dozen of people complained on the FT forums and we were told: do not complain here, go to Wilco support.The problem was that I had done that since the beginning, and so did other users, and I lost a lot of time doing it again and again, there was one slow irrelevant response initially (turn off DX10, but my ticket was saying clearly I was using XP, yeah they read our tickets, sure), and then after responding about it, nothing any more. Then again after a lot of emails and many months, the devs were supposed to look into it. And then nothing ever happened.So don't be fooled, even if you suddenly find out that you're not alone, it might not change anything at all. But I found my simple way to remedy to this frustration: I never bought any of their products again, and never will, and guess what, with my newer products, like the PMDG MD11, I never had to face a lack of support any more, when I ask a question, the support answers something that is not generic and shows their interest in solving my problems rather than blaming me for being an incompetent customer(!).While with FT/Wilco, it was too much asking, even asking which is the windshield texture so that I could fix it by myself (ie try to fix the alpha channer...) seemed too much asking.Sorry but when I read such things as "you're alone with that problem so fix it yourself" it reminds me too much of my wasted money and time!

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Malcolm,When I installed the PIC737 into FSX, it corrupted my dll.xml file (as well as everyone else who installed it into FSX). I copied the orig dll.xml before installing, then, after installation, cut and paste the PIC737 entries into the copied dll.xml and then replaced the corrrupted one. This could be causing your problems if your dll.xml is corrupted. Good luck on getting it fixed.Jim
Thanks for that tip Jim. I checked the dll.xml but couldn't see any problem. However the PMDG website has a basic dll.xml so I copied that, deinstalled the PIC737 and then reinstalled it together with FSUIC.Sadly at the end of that it made no difference. CheersMalcolm
Hmm, don't let yourself be told that you're the only one to have this problem, therefore it's your problem etc. With Wilco Airbus vol 1, some users including me had windshield textures appearing black or dark blue on the external view. We were told: you're the only ones to report that, your problem.Then a dozen of people complained on the FT forums and we were told: do not complain here, go to Wilco support.The problem was that I had done that since the beginning, and so did other users, and I lost a lot of time doing it again and again, there was one slow irrelevant response initially (turn off DX10, but my ticket was saying clearly I was using XP, yeah they read our tickets, sure), and then after responding about it, nothing any more. Then again after a lot of emails and many months, the devs were supposed to look into it. And then nothing ever happened.So don't be fooled, even if you suddenly find out that you're not alone, it might not change anything at all. But I found my simple way to remedy to this frustration: I never bought any of their products again, and never will, and guess what, with my newer products, like the PMDG MD11, I never had to face a lack of support any more, when I ask a question, the support answers something that is not generic and shows their interest in solving my problems rather than blaming me for being an incompetent customer(!).While with FT/Wilco, it was too much asking, even asking which is the windshield texture so that I could fix it by myself (ie try to fix the alpha channer...) seemed too much asking.Sorry but when I read such things as "you're alone with that problem so fix it yourself" it reminds me too much of my wasted money and time!
Cheers Newbie,It's nice to know that I am not the only one having problem with Wilco.My feeling at the moment is that as customers we are very much at the mercy of developers and publishers. On the whole - though there are a few exceptions where you can download a test version first - we are buying blind with most now having a "no refunds" policy. At the worst if something should go wrong we should be able to expect some kind of help from the publisher/developer or whoever is responsible for supplying support. At the moment my main complaint is that Wilco seem to be filtering my emails and not replying. I have several ideas of what they could do to investigate the problem but without a channel of communication it is impossible to suggest things. (II might point out that I have spent the best part of 40 years writing and debugging sofware professionally.)It is getting so bad now that I will probably have to send a snail mail letter to Wilco management to try and get some sort of response.CheersMalcolm

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Malcom,I don't think that they filter you, they're probably ignoring you. When I did get an answer, it was always after many successive emails (usually threatening to write a forum post or a blog showing the details of my problems). The problem is that the communication would stop again after that, so nothing would progress, and after a while it was just wasting too much of my time and nerves to go through that process again and again.I totally agree with you: I now only buy from publishers that let me try or let me ask for a refund, or when it's a product that was tested and recommended by some friends (I find that reviews on major sim website can sometime miss important bugs filling pages of customer complaints in the forums, so I don't take them as a guarantee of quality anymore).In any case, even if they come up with quality products again, I will never buy again from Wilco until they show that they have a support (that would start with a customer forum) and apply it to some of their products that are still bugged years after release...

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