I wrote:>I have no problems with the stock flight models. I believe much of what folks are discussing with regard to stability (in all modes of flight) is not all the fault of MS, but rather a contoller issue.

>>If two people who have survived a total of 40000 hours in the>air can't manage to smoothly operate what is billed as a>FLIGHT simulation, then it seems a pretty fair assessment that>there is a problem somewhere. While of course there is a problem. Give them 20 minutes to get use to the short little controls. :) It's no different than jumping into a Pitt's if you havn't flown aircraft with light control forces. You're bound to over control..L.Adamson

"I recently D/L'ed Rob Young's C172 .air file. Didn't see much difference between it and the stock 172 airfile on my system."Ouch! Arghh! I despair!!Rob

Its MS shortcoming simply becasue the sample rates for a digital control is simply too less and thats why the crude controls. Little change in controls and it jumps to the next value which is much higher and hence the aircraft gets over controlled. Notice how in AP the aircraft gets controlled through trim..so the values are there but they simply have not mapped that with greater sample rates in the controller interface..had they done it would be much smoother.

Do you think they will be mapping more sensitive increments in the future?Please say yes!

This should have been corrected for FS 2004. It seems to me this is a "core component" of flying..If this is the case, it is a MAJOR OVERSIGHT on the part of Microsoft... And everyone should be dinging Microsoft on the forums until a patch that resolves this is made available....Barry

Rob,Don't despair, they probably had their "Aircraft Realism" set to minimums...?????? :-)Bear!

>This should have been corrected for FS 2004. It seems to me>this is a "core component" of flying..>>If this is the case, it is a MAJOR OVERSIGHT on the part of>Microsoft... And everyone should be dinging Microsoft on the>forums until a patch that resolves this is made available....>>Hogwash!! :) It's simmer induced "PIO", as I've seen it numerous times. I can take off, and make exceptionally smooth climbouts with most aircraft...........in spot view. So........ why can I do it, ans some others can't? Just wondering.. :)And BTW-- I noticed the 172's trim is back to T/O position. Just trim a bit farther back, and the plane will smoothly lift off on it's own.L.Adamson

From the Combat side of the fence we recommend an absolute minimum of 30fps with above 40fps best. Violently maneuvering aircraft need the time slices to accurately model the aircraft in flight. I'm sure the same is true in FS. We used a have a demo that would show the problems of low frame rates on the Corsair with the nose pitching +/- a degree as the flight equations over compensated. If you increased the frame rate the pitch would go away.

Well, then it must be a control issue... As soon I get my hands on FS 2004 I will be tinkering... You have a modified version of your control, maybe that is the difference.. What is your hardware? What video card are you using? I have a Intel P4 2.5GHZ 768MB Ram GEF 4 ti /4200 and 60GB 7200 Hard drive. Should be plenty of horsepower.Maybe we should compare apples to apples... All I know is I can at least line up an aircraft on the centerline in real life, and in FS 200x, unless I don't have my yoke and pedals calibrated and the sensitivities adjusted properly, I careen. And maybe landing on centerline for most simmers isn't important, for me it is..And I would like to fly the A/C without the A/P.. You must have the magic man! Or good relexes!I don't want to mess with FS 2002 now as I would rather spend the time with tinkering with and tweaking FS 2004.Barry

>From the Combat side of the fence we recommend an absolute>minimum of 30fps with above 40fps best. Violently maneuvering>aircraft need the time slices to accurately model the aircraft>in flight. I'm sure the same is true in FS. We used a have a>demo that would show the problems of low frame rates on the>Corsair with the nose pitching +/- a degree as the flight>equations over compensated. If you increased the frame rate>the pitch would go away.That's very much the key to the problem. I also make quick manuvers & prefer higher fps where it counts!L.Adamson

In reference to the combat threat, regarding 30-40fps; what are your settings? With lot's of people maxxing out at 15 fps, this could be part of the problem with flight that's just not humming peacefully along at altitude.I did have some answers to your questions, and will re-write them. I have to type one-handed for the moment, and it's a "pain".L.Adamson

I see you have fps at unlimited....L.Adamson Athlon1900XP/Geforce3Ti500/512Ram fps=35Shortened spring on Saitek X45 joystick, to take a little stiffness out.

Usually, I would keep my nose out of such a thread. Not a Beta Tester but --- a 1% Combat Pilot -- CFS style. You know. 100% Last Alive -- No Fun Rules.Thanks to the likes of GregoryP we fly them and have come to appreciate them. Yes, I am an CFS1/2 convert. I can fly anything by the seat of my pants. WWII think. Not a bad idea to put the best of the best of the two sims together. Really.The mention of the Corsair put me to thought. After years of flying this bird put me back into thought. Good stuff, by good peoples. Opps, almost forgot. R/C pilot and President of the Rhode Island South County Aeromodelers Club. Errr -- make that past president. That helps making flying from the outside easy.Frenchy -- out.PS - Don't have a fancy monicker to attach.

>Hogwash!! It's simmer induced "PIO", as I've seen it numerous times. I can take off, and make exceptionally smooth climbouts with most aircraft...........in spot view. So........ why can I do it, ans some others can't? Just wondering..From the Combat side of the fence we recommend an absolute minimum of 30fps with above 40fps best. Violently maneuvering aircraft need the time slices to accurately model the aircraft in flight. I'm sure the same is true in FS. We used a have a demo that would show the problems of low frame rates on the Corsair with the nose pitching +/- a degree as the flight equations over compensated. If you increased the frame rate the pitch would go away.<>That's very much the key to the problem. I also make quick manuvers & prefer higher fps where it counts!All I know is I can at least line up an aircraft on the centerline in real life, and in FS 200x, unless I don't have my yoke and pedals calibrated and the sensitivities adjusted properly, I careen. And maybe landing on centerline for most simmers isn't important, for me it is..And I would like to fly the A/C without the A/P.. You must have the magic man! Or good relexes!Usually, I would keep my nose out of such a thread