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gosta

DPs and STARs

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Need some help from some instrument rated guys. When flying a STAR, can you enter it from any point? Or do you have to enter from the listed transitions. Same for DP. Can you fly to any point along the DP route, or do you have to go to the transitions. For example: Robinsville One Arrival at EWR has two listed transitions, AGGARD and PXT. Do I have to enter the STAR at one of those two locations? Or could I come in from OOD, VCN, ENO, or other waypoints along the STAR route. I will try to paste the STAR. Not sure if PDF files can be posted. If not hopefully you all have access to it. Thanks for the help.Dave

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no,I don't think you have to enter it via a transition,same for DP's,but for a STAR,the only fixes you can start the STAR on are the transition fixes,and the fix where the transitions generally come together.this fix will most likely have the name of the STAR.but those KEWr departures are vector departures,so you'll be vectored to your first fix shortly by new york departures

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Hi Dave,There are several perspectives to consider: the route you request in your IFR flight plan, the route contained in the IFR clearance you receive, and the route you actually end up flying.If you want to fly a route that isn't depicted on a STAR or DP, you can request the route you want when you file your IFR flight plan and put "NO DP" or "NO STAR" in the comments section. However, just because you request a particular route doesn't mean ATC will give you that route in your clearance.An IFR clearance defines a route that you could fly should you lose radio communication for some reason. So if your clearance contains a STAR on a DP, it will probably specify one of the defined transitions.Once you're airborne, you could get vectored around weather or traffic. So you might not end up flying the route depicted on a STAR or DP. The controller might even give you a shortcut, if they can.While flying, ATC might vector you to join a STAR or DP route at any point. Say you cross the Patuxent VOR and are established on the arrival route when ATC tells you "Fly heading 070, vectors for in-trail spacing." At some point later ATC might tell you "Fly heading 360, intercept the Patuxent 046 radial, resume the Robinsville One Arrival ..."The primary reason for DPs and STARs is to reduce the amount of instructions a controller has to give you, thereby simplifying the delivery of IFR clearances. So if you use a DP or STAR, you should plan to use one of the defined transitions.Hope that helps.John

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Thanks for the great answers guys. That helps out alot. Sure would be nice if FS02s ATC could do that stuff. You should at least be able to put in altitudes for ATC. I always get cancelled when flying DPs and STARs.Thanks again,DAVE

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While it would be nice to have ATC recognise SIDs and STARs, there is a workaround: Just after take-off, when ATC hands you off to xxx Departure, acknowledge the handoff, but don't contact the new centre. Fly your SID, and once established on your route, contact ATC again. It doesn't work as well for arrivals, though...Cheers,Gosta.

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